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Thread: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Argentina isn't a strategic opponent of the US. Iran very clearly has taken the Iraq fiasco into account in determining how it handles UN weapons inspections. Further, so far as I know, there hasn't been much "secret" to the Iranian nuclear program in terms of how much uranium they have and what they're doing with it.
    Iraq systematically played games with UN inspectors. And if Iran simply was doing civilian programs, they'd have no problem having the UN inspectors walk through and see nothing going on. And they'd save huge sums of money simply buying fuel rather than making it themselves. When you have a clear ledger of how much you bought, how much got consumed in electrical generation and how much waste you shipped back, that's a solid argument you're not doing secret programs. There's plenty of signs of an obvious civilian program. Hiding your facilities under mountains, having them run by the military and denying their existence does not suggest you're doing entirely peaceful operations.

    If Iran was doing purely civilian, they wouldn't have gone the way they did purely out of cost.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If it doesn't matter then it wouldn't be continuously repeated. It obviously has enormous propaganda value or people wouldn't continually repeat it when it is completely and 100% confirmed to be false.
    I guess, but in the context of who has power to do anything in Iran, the President is a joke. What he says is largely irrelevant simply because the office itself is nothing more than a figurehead.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by falcata View Post
    In ancient Persia one the greatest crimes that could be committed was to tell a lie. Also for a decent period of time you could say the Persians or Middle Easterns in general were a more "civilized" people than those of Europe.

    So although they may not be the most exemplary people on Earth right now, let's not deny them their place in history.
    Yes, history is the best place for them.

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Iraq systematically played games with UN inspectors. And if Iran simply was doing civilian programs, they'd have no problem having the UN inspectors walk through and see nothing going on. And they'd save huge sums of money simply buying fuel rather than making it themselves. When you have a clear ledger of how much you bought, how much got consumed in electrical generation and how much waste you shipped back, that's a solid argument you're not doing secret programs. There's plenty of signs of an obvious civilian program. Hiding your facilities under mountains, having them run by the military and denying their existence does not suggest you're doing entirely peaceful operations.

    If Iran was doing purely civilian, they wouldn't have gone the way they did purely out of cost.
    I'm not going to address your mention of Iraq. My point was that, regardless of what was actually going on in Iraq, what was known - or, to prevent you debating me on this subject, what was perceived by Iran and most likely other states - was that the US was using UN weapons inspectors to spy on Iraq. So with regards to this point, and coupled with the fact that UN inspectors have made requests outside of the scope of any legal agreement or negotiation (such as visiting military facilities unconnected to the nuclear program, simply because they have an unsubstantiated idea that it might be part of it), it's clear that Iran is not going to comply with such requests.

    Further, you will find that neither the IAEA nor the United States make - nor attempt to substantiate - the claim that Iran has not been transparent about nuclear materials. All you have is suspicion that they "might" be "researching" weaponization, with no evidence to support the fact. What you find when you review the past five years of IAEA reports and events surrounding the Iranian nuclear program is minor conflicts that get resolved in time.

    As for the choice of production vs. importation, that's a non-argument. Iran has the legal right, under NPT, to produce its own uranium. Politically, it makes sense for Iran to produce its own uranium, as the past years of sanctions has transparently shown; importing uranium might be more cost effective generally, but not when there are economic sanctions and embargoes in place. Duh!
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I guess, but in the context of who has power to do anything in Iran, the President is a joke. What he says is largely irrelevant simply because the office itself is nothing more than a figurehead.
    I agree to an extent. They are given a certain leeway.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    ever hear of Arabic numerals? back in the middle ages Islamic empires were more advanced in terms of research and culture. Islamic doctors had knowledge of herbs and medical cures, and back then i would have been safer being treated by a Arabic doctor then a European one.
    And you would have needed that doctor in that terminal war zone.

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And you would have needed that doctor in that terminal war zone.
    Apparently the herbal treatments aren't helping them much.

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    With respect to Iran, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has an op-ed in today's Washington Post. The op-ed can be found at:

    President of Iran Hassan Rouhani: Time to engage - The Washington Post

    My quick thoughts:

    The rhetoric is encouraging, but one needs concrete policy information and actions to determine whether the softer rhetoric is indicative of an Iranian shift or whether it is merely fresh packaging on a policy that remains little changed. One also has to bear in mind that Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei's authority supersedes that of the President. Khamenei has not had a record of flexibility.

    In the op-ed, President Rouhani repeatedly refers to "constructive engagement." He talks about a world where "global politics is no longer a zero-sum game." The big question concerns whether he is indicating new Iranian flexibility or whether he is largely imploring the international community to be more flexible in its dealings with Iran. A diplomatic breakthrough will require trade-offs from both sides, not simply the international community's abandoning its needs with respect to Iran.

    The rhetoric and appeals to "mutual respect" and "win-win outcomes" seems encouraging. Certainly, if the opportunity arises, President Obama should meet with his Iranian counterpart at the UN General Assembly.

    Having said that, there are elements in the op-ed that suggest more a change in style than substance. For example, Rouhani declares that it is "counterintuitive to pursue one's interests without considering the interests of others." He could just as easily be charging that the U.S. and international community have been ignoring Iran's interests. Perhaps most decisive, he ties Iran's nuclear program to Iran's identity. He writes:

    The centrality of identity extends to the case of our peaceful nuclear energy program. To us, mastering the atomic fuel cycle and generating nuclear power is as much about diversifying our energy resources as it is about who Iranians are as a nation, our demand for dignity and respect and our consequent place in the world. Without comprehending the role of identity, many issues we all face will remain unresolved.

    Is the Iranian President willing to accept international safeguards to assure that his country's nuclear program is "peaceful?" Is he willing to limit his notions of "mastering the atomic fuel cycle" to the more limited areas consistent with a civilian nuclear program rather than inclusive of know-how or technology necessary to create highly-enriched uranium that could be weaponized? If not, and that remains to be seen and should be probed by international diplomats in the near-term, then he is actually making a decisive stand against compromise on Iran's nuclear activities despite the kinder rhetorical packaging he has offered.

    Actions and concrete policy details will determine whether Iran is shifting course. Until then, the best one can suggest is that the possible opening needs to be explored to see if it is real. One cannot, at this time, conclude that Iran has shifted its policy course.

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And you would have needed that doctor in that terminal war zone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Apparently the herbal treatments aren't helping them much.
    Question: if you were somehow transported back in time to medieval Europe, and you develop a severe headache, who would you seek medical help from? a Arabic doctor or a christian doctor?

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    Re: Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    With respect to Iran, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has an op-ed in today's Washington Post. The op-ed can be found at:

    President of Iran Hassan Rouhani: Time to engage - The Washington Post

    My quick thoughts:

    The rhetoric is encouraging, but one needs concrete policy information and actions to determine whether the softer rhetoric is indicative of an Iranian shift or whether it is merely fresh packaging on a policy that remains little changed. One also has to bear in mind that Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei's authority supersedes that of the President. Khamenei has not had a record of flexibility.

    In the op-ed, President Rouhani repeatedly refers to "constructive engagement." He talks about a world where "global politics is no longer a zero-sum game." The big question concerns whether he is indicating new Iranian flexibility or whether he is largely imploring the international community to be more flexible in its dealings with Iran. A diplomatic breakthrough will require trade-offs from both sides, not simply the international community's abandoning its needs with respect to Iran.

    The rhetoric and appeals to "mutual respect" and "win-win outcomes" seems encouraging. Certainly, if the opportunity arises, President Obama should meet with his Iranian counterpart at the UN General Assembly.

    Having said that, there are elements in the op-ed that suggest more a change in style than substance. For example, Rouhani declares that it is "counterintuitive to pursue one's interests without considering the interests of others." He could just as easily be charging that the U.S. and international community have been ignoring Iran's interests. Perhaps most decisive, he ties Iran's nuclear program to Iran's identity. He writes:

    The centrality of identity extends to the case of our peaceful nuclear energy program. To us, mastering the atomic fuel cycle and generating nuclear power is as much about diversifying our energy resources as it is about who Iranians are as a nation, our demand for dignity and respect and our consequent place in the world. Without comprehending the role of identity, many issues we all face will remain unresolved.

    Is the Iranian President willing to accept international safeguards to assure that his country's nuclear program is "peaceful?" Is he willing to limit his notions of "mastering the atomic fuel cycle" to the more limited areas consistent with a civilian nuclear program rather than inclusive of know-how or technology necessary to create highly-enriched uranium that could be weaponized? If not, and that remains to be seen and should be probed by international diplomats in the near-term, then he is actually making a decisive stand against compromise on Iran's nuclear activities despite the kinder rhetorical packaging he has offered.

    Actions and concrete policy details will determine whether Iran is shifting course. Until then, the best one can suggest is that the possible opening needs to be explored to see if it is real. One cannot, at this time, conclude that Iran has shifted its policy course.
    Yes! I read that and was so pleased. Now, all he need do is let the UN inspectors run free and "Hey presto!"

    Until then the sanctions that were installed to help the Persians make this decision must stay in place and the military must be prepared.

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