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Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

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    House Bill Defunds Health Care

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/19/us...ocDrMbeP5FlRag

    House Bill Cuts Health Funds, Raising Odds of U.S. Shutdown

    By JONATHAN WEISMAN and ASHLEY PARKER
    Published: September 18, 2013

    WASHINGTON — House Republican leaders — bowing to the demands of their conservative wing — will put to a vote on Friday a stopgap spending measure that would strip all funding from President Obama’s signature health care law, increasing the likelihood that the government will shut down in two weeks.


    So what's going on here? Another defeat Obamacare vote? And will this shut down the government like in the 90's? If so, will it come back to bite the Republicans in the a**?

    Why the urgency to defeat this "train wreck"? If that's what this is, why not let it fail and bring down its Democratic authors? Republicans have shown they can play politics with the welfare of the American people by threatening the full faith and credit of the country, so why not let the law destroy itself, then sweep in and take the credit for predicting it?

    My question is, do Republicans fear that ACA will not be the disaster they predict, or even worse, a success, and are trying to sabotage it before they look bad for opposing it? Or is this just a stunt to appease their radical right wing? "Obamacare delenda est"?
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/19/us...ocDrMbeP5FlRag

    House Bill Cuts Health Funds, Raising Odds of U.S. Shutdown

    By JONATHAN WEISMAN and ASHLEY PARKER
    Published: September 18, 2013

    WASHINGTON — House Republican leaders — bowing to the demands of their conservative wing — will put to a vote on Friday a stopgap spending measure that would strip all funding from President Obama’s signature health care law, increasing the likelihood that the government will shut down in two weeks.


    So what's going on here? Another defeat Obamacare vote? And will this shut down the government like in the 90's? If so, will it come back to bite the Republicans in the a**?

    Why the urgency to defeat this "train wreck"? If that's what this is, why not let it fail and bring down its Democratic authors? Republicans have shown they can play politics with the welfare of the American people by threatening the full faith and credit of the country, so why not let the law destroy itself, then sweep in and take the credit for predicting it?

    My question is, do Republicans fear that ACA will not be the disaster they predict, or even worse, a success, and are trying to sabotage it before they look bad for opposing it? Or is this just a stunt to appease their radical right wing? "Obamacare delenda est"?
    No, I'd think any rational review of the Republicans objection to Obamacare would find the concern is not that it will be a success, but as the Obama Administration has proved through all it's waivers and wave offs, it will be the disaster that has been predicted.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    No, I'd think any rational review of the Republicans objection to Obamacare would find the concern is not that it will be a success, but as the Obama Administration has proved through all it's waivers and wave offs, it will be the disaster that has been predicted.
    That's not it at all. Even if it passes they KNOW Obama will veto it and they don't have a majority for it to pass after a veto. Thus forcing a shutdown. This is to try and score political points for the 2014 election nothing more. Not saying the Dems don't try to pull stuff like this off either, but that is what this is.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    That's not it at all. Even if it passes they KNOW Obama will veto it and they don't have a majority for it to pass after a veto. Thus forcing a shutdown. This is to try and score political points for the 2014 election nothing more. Not saying the Dems don't try to pull stuff like this off either, but that is what this is.
    Chess is battle of wills and strategy. I'm not convinced the current Republican leadership is willing to see a government shutdown, nor is it willing to allow the MSM to spin the cause should it come to that.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/19/us...ocDrMbeP5FlRag

    House Bill Cuts Health Funds, Raising Odds of U.S. Shutdown

    By JONATHAN WEISMAN and ASHLEY PARKER
    Published: September 18, 2013

    WASHINGTON — House Republican leaders — bowing to the demands of their conservative wing — will put to a vote on Friday a stopgap spending measure that would strip all funding from President Obama’s signature health care law, increasing the likelihood that the government will shut down in two weeks.


    So what's going on here? Another defeat Obamacare vote? And will this shut down the government like in the 90's? If so, will it come back to bite the Republicans in the a**?

    Why the urgency to defeat this "train wreck"? If that's what this is, why not let it fail and bring down its Democratic authors? Republicans have shown they can play politics with the welfare of the American people by threatening the full faith and credit of the country, so why not let the law destroy itself, then sweep in and take the credit for predicting it?

    My question is, do Republicans fear that ACA will not be the disaster they predict, or even worse, a success, and are trying to sabotage it before they look bad for opposing it? Or is this just a stunt to appease their radical right wing? "Obamacare delenda est"?
    I think the reason Republicans are making a stand here is because they don't want it implemented in the first place. To implement it, let it fail, and then subsequently figure out something new would cost a ton of money and time, not to mention would really be a catastrophe for the average person and business. Republicans are also concerned that if implemented, assuming that repealing it or letting it fail would be too costly, there would be an obligation to "make it work", thereby solidifying it as "too big to fail". That would mean fixing the system concurrent with people using the system.

    Sure there are politics involved, but this is a case where politics are used to achieve an ideological objective and not just to make the administration look bad IMO. The majority of people believe the implementation of Obamacare thus far has been disorganized at best, and most don't believe it's the best way to fix the problems in healthcare. Unfortunately, Obamacare supporters have been so unrelenting in their support that they don't want to consider ways to make it better or change it because that would be a sign of weakness in their minds. So now we're in a position where a sub-par medical system is about to go into effect and in a disorganized fashion (a fact that most recognize), and the only potential way to change it or fix it is to defund it.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    IMO, the bigger risk entails possible attempts to use the debt ceiling increase for political purposes. According to The Washington Post such an effort might be pursued. The newspaper reported:

    In addition, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) laid out his party’s legislative grab bag of requests that will be attached to a bill that would lift the debt ceiling, including a delay of the health law, an overhaul of the tax code and approval of an energy pipeline running from Canada to the gulf coast.
    House Republicans plan Friday vote on defunding Obamacare - The Washington Post

    Were the U.S. to default on its obligations, even for a temporary period of time, that outcome would very likely inflict long-lasting damage on the credibility of U.S. commitments. It would demonstrate that in the U.S. political system, political pursuits carry greater weight than even the nation's credit record. Unlike with the S&P debt downgrade, this outcome would probably result in a long-term increase in the nation's risk premium, In turn, that would translate into higher costs for taxpayers, borrowers, and firms given the financial system linkages. A higher cost of capital for firms would entail lower economic profits (financial profits minus cost of capital) and there would be some shifting of capital. Marginal businesses would particularly be hurt.

    If a temporary default occurs, sole responsibility would belong to those who attempted to use the debt ceiling for leverage in purely political battles. The default would have been completely self-engineered.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, the bigger risk entails possible attempts to use the debt ceiling increase for political purposes.
    It's been used as a political purpose for the past 2 years now by both sides.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's been used as a political purpose for the past 2 years now by both sides.
    The only people who are using it for political purposes are those who refuse to pass it. The debt ceiling should be a non-issue; it is just a means of funding spending programs that were already approved. There shouldn't even be any negotiation required on either side about this. If you didn't want to pay for the spending programs, you shouldn't have voted for them. This is why it was never an issue in the past.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Congress is trying to pass a bill to defund a law they passed, and if the law they passed isn't defunded by Congress, then Congress will decide to temporarily suspend the government they are responsible (while they themselves are still getting paid) for from work, and likely not pay the bills Congress accumulated.


    Take partisanship out of it for just a second and take a moment to think how utterly ridiculous this situation is.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    If non-establishment Republicans need to re-learn the lesson from the last government shut down, let them. The establishment mostly doesn't want to see this happen again, but God knows others do.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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