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House Bill Defunds Health Care

greengirl77 said:
Becuase they offered it and the Republicans had no ideas, the thing that gets me is this was a problem back in 2000 and Bush and the Republicans went on a war rampage and dumped a couple of trillion dollars chasing their tail. Now they want to cry foul.
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Let me try to explain what happed during the time the Obamacare was being touted by the Democrats to answer your question about there being no Republican ideas.


The Republicans were not permitted to bring forth any ideas at all in either the House or the Senate by the Democratic Leaders.

With respect to the year 2000 we had a little issue with an organization called Al Queida and a war with a country that we thought had chemical weapons. Given that a Universal Health Care is a Democratic issue, did they make any inquiries with the Republicans on anything that could be agreed to? I doubt they would want to do anything on that issue since it could be used to attack the Republicans and Democrats do not want to "compromise" unless they can get they whole thing latter and any deal with the Republicans before the Democrats could control both Houses in Congress and the Presidency would lessen an urgency that would compel the more moderate Democrats to agree to a more radical bill.
 
Slyfox696 said:
No, I'm the one who noted the utter absurdity of the position we are currently in.
But a very accurate one.
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And you are complaining that the Republicans are doing something to correct it.
 
Shadow Serious said:
Let me try to explain what happed during the time the Obamacare was being touted by the Democrats to answer your question about there being no Republican ideas.


The Republicans were not permitted to bring forth any ideas at all in either the House or the Senate by the Democratic Leaders.

With respect to the year 2000 we had a little issue with an organization called Al Queida and a war with a country that we thought had chemical weapons. Given that a Universal Health Care is a Democratic issue, did they make any inquiries with the Republicans on anything that could be agreed to? I doubt they would want to do anything on that issue since it could be used to attack the Republicans and Democrats do not want to "compromise" unless they can get they whole thing latter and any deal with the Republicans before the Democrats could control both Houses in Congress and the Presidency would lessen an urgency that would compel the more moderate Democrats to agree to a more radical bill.
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Excellent point. Obama care is, after all, an idea conceived by the Heritage Foundation and tested by Republican leadership in Massachusetts. It is, in fact, one of the very few Republican ideas of the last 100 years.
 
upsideguy said:
Excellent point. Obama care is, after all, an idea conceived by the Heritage Foundation and tested by Republican leadership in Massachusetts. It is, in fact, one of the very few Republican ideas of the last 100 years.
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Apparently ocean515 already answered your point (he was answering a post by Carleen) :


ocean515 said:
I understand what you have been told to believe. The fact is, the Herritage Foundation abandoned their plan as unworkable, and the plan in Massechusetts looks nothing like Obamacare.
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One idea by the Republicans would be that States would have to allow more variety of plans that are offered to State residents.
 
Misterveritis said:
One must beware the socialists in both parties. The Establishment Republicans are only a little less bad than all of the Democrats.
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greengirl77 said:
More nutty talk from the rightwing. I guess thats the new scare word "Socialist". Funny thing is we have many forms of socialism that the Reoublicans just love its called the Military.
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So do you suggest that we have private armies? The Military is one of the very few things that a government should be the sole entity allowed to do. And do you hope to convince that Obama Care is free market or not really a government mandated program?
 
ocean515 said:
I understand what you have been told to believe. The fact is, the Herritage Foundation abandoned their plan as unworkable, and the plan in Massechusetts looks nothing like Obamacare.

It seem apparent nobody has told you the connections don't work. But it's certainly a lazy way to not make a point.
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I understand what you have been told to believe, the Obamacare is as close the Massachusetts plan as close gets....

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Obamacare_vs_Romneycare
PolitiFact | Romney says his health care bill affected far smaller percentage of people than Obama's
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/health_stew/2012/08/romneycare_vs_obamacare_which.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...care-differ-only-in-inconsequential-ways.html
http://conservativebyte.com/2012/01/check-out-this-chart-comparing-romneycare-to-obamacare/

Yep, each one of these articles tells you how Romneycare is nothing like Obamacare..... yeah, right (they are practically twins)

The Romneycare Obamacare twins.jpg


... and if it is a FACT that the Heritage Foundation abandoned their own idea as unworkable, you should have NO problem producing proof for this..... otherwise, the proposition stands that the individual mandate is a Heritage Foundation idea.

Health insurance mandate began as a Republican idea - The Boston Globe

Just because you say it is so, does not make it so... let's see your proof.
 
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Shadow Serious said:
Apparently ocean515 already answered your point (he was answering a post by Carleen) :




One idea by the Republicans would be that States would have to allow more variety of plans that are offered to State residents.
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Ocean offered up only his impressions and wishful thinking. That an $2 gets you a Venti coffee at Starbucks..... come to think of it, it would be $2 with or without Ocean's opinion... which, I guess makes his opinion worthless.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Providing a service explicitly written into the Constitution is not Socialism, contrary to any links you may choose to post...
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EdwinWillers said:
Did you even bother to read that blog?? He makes an assertion then completely fails to back it up. He quotes the dictionary definition of socialism then fails to make any case whatsoever how the military applies to that. I hate to burst your bubble, but an individual blogger's unfounded opinion on what constitutes socialism, especially w/r to the military fails miserably.
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The Author of the Article was disputing that the Military (of the USA) is a institution of Socialism.
 
upsideguy said:
Excellent point. Obama care is, after all, an idea conceived by the Heritage Foundation and tested by Republican leadership in Massachusetts. It is, in fact, one of the very few Republican ideas of the last 100 years.
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Dont you get tired of that talking point?

Heritage policy experts never supported an unqualified mandate like that in the PPACA [ObamaCare]. Their prior support for a qualified mandate was limited to catastrophic coverage (true insurance that is precisely what the PPACA forbids), coupled with tax relief for all families and other reforms that are conspicuously absent from the PPACA. Since then, a growing body of research has provided a strong basis to conclude that any government insurance mandate is not only unnecessary, but is a bad policy option. Moreover, Heritage’s legal scholars have been consistent in explaining that the type of mandate in the PPACA is unconstitutional.
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http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/Heritage-Foundation-Amicus-Brief-05-11-11.pdf
 
Shadow Serious said:
The Author of the Article was disputing that the Military (of the USA) is a institution of Socialism.
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Yep; you're correct. I got a little ahead of myself there, the original assertion being so absurd I flew right past my own point. :)
 
upsideguy said:
I understand what you have been told to believe, the Obamacare is as close the Massachusetts plan as close gets....

Obamacare vs Romneycare - Difference and Comparison | Diffen
PolitiFact | Romney says his health care bill affected far smaller percentage of people than Obama's
RomneyCare vs. ObamaCare – which is better? - Health Stew - Boston.com
Romneycare and Obamacare Differ Only in Inconsequential Ways - The Daily Beast
Check out this chart comparing RomneyCare to ObamaCare - Conservative Byte

Yep, each one of these articles tells you how Romneycare is nothing like Obamacare..... yeah, right (they are practically twins)

View attachment 67154230


... and if it is a FACT that the Heritage Foundation abandoned their own idea as unworkable, you should have NO problem producing proof for this..... otherwise, the proposition stands that the individual mandate is a Heritage Foundation idea.

Health insurance mandate began as a Republican idea - The Boston Globe

Just because you say it is so, does not make it so... let's see your proof.
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Start with the fact it's a state program, and not a National program. Then please indicate how it's paid for.
 
upsideguy said:
Excellent point. Obama care is, after all, an idea conceived by the Heritage Foundation and tested by Republican leadership in Massachusetts. It is, in fact, one of the very few Republican ideas of the last 100 years.
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Greetings, upsideguy. :2wave:

At the time that the healthcare bill was being conceived in Massachusetts, both houses were solidly Democrat. All Romney did was sign a Democrat-sponsored bill into law. If that makes Republicans the owners of same, considering that a veto from him would have been overturned, call it what you will.

On the other hand, if it were that great, why are we having the problems we are seeing with Obamacare, another Democrat sponsored healthcare bill? When a majority of Americans don't want or like it, there usually is a good reason, not even counting the lies about it that are now becoming apparent...cost, doctor shortage, access to tests determined by beaurocrats in DC and not your doctor, etc. And most important, why the urgent cries to be exempted from such a great plan? :thumbdown:
 
humbolt said:
Nah. They don't. It's been thoroughly discredited, but even some who claim to be "conservative", right leaning, and the like can be found nodding their pointed little heads in agreement.
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Its standard moral relativism. We cant defend something, so we try to make you stink too.
 
I know. I will admit it does bother me that some of the GOP just can't help but put their two cents worth into anything. If the democrats bring a steaming pile of **** into congress, some brain dead republican is willing to contribute a few flies. It's maddening sometimes.
jonny5 said:
Its standard moral relativism. We cant defend something, so we try to make you stink too.
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upsideguy said:
Excellent point. Obama care is, after all, an idea conceived by the Heritage Foundation and tested by Republican leadership in Massachusetts. It is, in fact, one of the very few Republican ideas of the last 100 years.
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Conservatives and Republicans are more than happy when Democrats take Republican ideas and apply them to their legislation.... we simply request that you not take ideas from our trash cans.
 
jmotivator said:
Conservatives and Republicans are more than happy when Democrats take Republican ideas and apply them to their legislation.... we simply request that you not take ideas from our trash cans.
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Applause! Amen! YEAH! Right on! You nailed it! :)
 
Mr.Nick said:
Well it makes sense considering the only collectivists who believe the program is a good idea are the elitist progressives and their sheep while the rest of society that actually work blue collar jobs or those who own small businesses (or even franchises) including democrats know it's epic bull****....

The only difference is that the progressives/democrats opposed to this socialist nonsense want "waivers" while the rest of us non-socialists and non-democrats want it repealed entirely...

Democrats and progressives are fine with it just as long as they don't have to abide by it...

The progressives major voting block - the labor unions are calling bull****....
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Now I have to (or gotz to) quote myself...

I think Jay Carney's recent comments backup my claims...

"I would if I didn't have an existing health care plan" really Jay? what plan is that? the private subsidized taxpayer funded health care plan? Or Obamacare...

What a snug POS...

What an assclown....

In short - if that little squirrel was honest he would have said "no."
 
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jonny5 said:
Dont you get tired of that talking point?


http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/Heritage-Foundation-Amicus-Brief-05-11-11.pdf
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Thank you! I finally get an intelligent retort.

Nonetheless, I am certain you can appreciate the awkward position Heritiage Foundation is in in all of this, originally advocating a mandate (maybe not the same type) and then trying to write friend of the court briefs to take essentially the opposite position. I am certain this is quite nuanced. I still appreciate the intelligent response with good information from which I can learn something rather than the yahoo responses simply telling me I am ignorant, but without an defense of such a position.

I will enjoy reading this and reconciling it to their original work and the mandate that is now a part of law.
 
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Kobie said:
Yeah, really?
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And because you DO support Obama Care obviously you do not want the Republicans to do anything but support it. You will have to accept that there are people who do not and will do anything that they can to stop Obama Care in its tracks and to repeal it.

Anyway given that the Obama administration is giving out waivers to most big Corporations and Unions it would only be fair to delay it if there is such a problem in implementing it for the big guys. Or do you think that the average joe and the small employer should just eat the cost that the more well endowed in influence and money gets to avoid.
 
Greenbeard said:
Regardless of their origin, many ideas supported by the GOP and included in their own pieces of legislation made it into the ACA. Rather than acknowledge that, the GOP played games throughout the entire legislative process that produced the ACA.

Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill - YouTube
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From what I could understand was the Democrats were trying to roll up all Republican proposed amendments in to one vote to allow to be on the floor so that the proposed amendments could then be voted on or did the Democrats just vote down any discussion on the proposed amendments and thus did not allow the opportunity to be able to add them to the bill. Obviously the Republicans did not want their ideas to be denied in one vote and insisted that some of the amendments be voted for separately.

Question: Did the Democrats in the Senate allow any of the proposed amendments to be voted by the floor and thus give the opportunity for the Senate to adopt these amendments or did just shut the Republians out of the process.
 
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