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House Bill Defunds Health Care

AngryOldGuy said:
funny thing is you actually believe that
you also prolly believe if you don't have medical insurance
YOU WILL DIE!
well sonny yer SO wrong, its no wonder insurance companies get so bloody rich
I went into an ER in the 90's after losing a fight with a circular saw
they said: do you have insurance? I said no I have CASH!
Then I proceeded to ask them 'what is the price' they hadn't a clue.
If you went to the grocery store, the car dealership, barbershop or anywhere else
and they couldn't tell you what the product or service cost what would your reaction be?

My wife still laughs about it: your getting stitched up @ 1:00 O'Clock in the morning, complaining WTF is the price!

It was just over 500 bucks for some stitches Tell you what That was a total flippin' rip off for sure
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How much did you pay? Insurance companies get a discount. Did you?
 
Yes boys and girls tax free medical savings accounts that can be passed on to your heirs
tort reform and
de-regulation of insurance companies so that you could cover your whole family with a high deductible catastrophic plan
and
free market capitalism in the medical industry, if the product is priced way beyond what the market can bear then the price will fall
if you pay cash for what you buy then you'll only purchase what you can afford Why should a skid row bum be given a new Porsche 911 GT3?

Now we will all beg in front of the death panel and they will decide if we get the surgery or Obama's lil yellow pill.
Well buddy that's downright un-American but then all you Liberals are commies anyway
 
AngryOldGuy said:
funny thing is you actually believe that
you also prolly believe if you don't have medical insurance
YOU WILL DIE!
well sonny yer SO wrong, its no wonder insurance companies get so bloody rich
I went into an ER in the 90's after losing a fight with a circular saw
they said: do you have insurance? I said no I have CASH!
Then I proceeded to ask them 'what is the price' they hadn't a clue.
If you went to the grocery store, the car dealership, barbershop or anywhere else
and they couldn't tell you what the product or service cost what would your reaction be?

My wife still laughs about it: your getting stitched up @ 1:00 O'Clock in the morning, complaining WTF is the price!

It was just over 500 bucks for some stitches Tell you what That was a total flippin' rip off for sure
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For one, I didn't say anything about dying. I said cost. What do you think is going to happen when you get a quarter million dollar bill for heart surgery, cancer, or a serious car accident? Who is going to pay for that? You? No. Me. That's who. Me, other insured people, and the taxpayers.

Second, you point out a serious and fundamental flaw in our current health care delivery model: the patient has no real idea what the cost is going to be, and no real choice in the matter. It's not like if they told you up front that the cost was $500 you'd have said "oh no thanks I'll just sit here and bleed some more." No, Obamacare doesn't address this underlying flaw. But let's not act like it caused it either. This did happen to you in the 90s, after all.

Finally, I should mention that yes, actually, not having health insurance does make you more likely to die from a preventable illness. People without insurance tend to wait until the situation becomes serious before they go to the doctor, rather than getting early checkups. (hell, people with insurance do this more often than they should) Waiting until a later stage of illness makes that illness more likely to kill you. (duh)
 
OhIsee.Then said:
How much did you pay? Insurance companies get a discount. Did you?
Click to expand...

You always pay less when you pay cash far less than what they charge the insurance companies didn't you know that?
I bargained the 500+ dollar bill down to $373.00 in the end I always get a cash discount otherwise I tell em no way José
 
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Deuce said:
For one, I didn't say anything about dying.
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well for one thing we are ALL gonna die regardless
(sorry to break the bad news to you)
If you think you have to pay mountains of cash in insurance premuims over the course of your lifetime to guarantee immortality then that's perfectly within your right to live your life that way but you've no right to enforce at the point
of a gun such stupid belief system on your fellow countrymen? No wait I take that back now with the ACA
that is precisely what we have? How I fund my hip replacement or cold medicine is no concern of yours.

When my mom had terminal cancer someone talked her into getting a second opinion hah guess what
she died and so will everyone else.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
You always pay less when you pay cash than what they charge the insurance companies didn't you know that?
I bargained the 500+ dollar bill down to $373.00 in the end I always get a cash discount otherwise I tell em no way José
Click to expand...
You did OK. Did you think you got $373 worth of care in your opinion?
 
OhIsee.Then said:
You did OK. Did you think you got $373 worth of care in your opinion?
Click to expand...
not even close but the guy that stitched me up was way over qualified he was a real deal trauma surgeon who'd just transferred to that ER several weeks before from the Mexican cartel warzone in west Phoenix he said he'd gotten tired of digging rounds out of gang bangers or not being able to save five and six year old children shot in the head by stray rounds from drive-by shootings. A Nurse Practitioner could have dealt with my injury but the place was deserted so he handled it, it wasn't long after that in Phoenix that most of the ER's in those parts of town closed because they were flooded with non-paying illegals.
 
I'd love to see Americans get told: no you can't have it you don't have the money!

Everyone gets a tax free medical account, they can elect to pay for a very REASONABLE
high deductible catastrophic policy from this account. This account can be used to fund medical procedures for dependants. And it can be willed tax free to your heirs.

If you want something in the healthcare marketplace then you pay for it.
If you can't afford it then you don't get it.

The free market could provide much better products and services than the crappy socialised medicine we are going to end up with.
Pure and simple the people with money will still be able to get the good stuff the poor folks will still get more than they pay for and the middle class will get ruined in the process.
 
Americans aren't stoopid
millions will pay the fine then if they need something force an insurance company to cover their pre-existing conditions.
The guys running the insurance companies aren't fools either, they will quickly shift their substantial assets elsewhere
and quietly go out of business leaving everyone standing in line at the exchanges with the felons, welfare moms and the illegals.

Have fun with that.

oh and did you know the IRS can't even collect the fine?
aw go on and tell me that's not in the ACA either :tongue4:
 
AngryOldGuy said:
There are no death panels
there's no rationing
no one is getting any waivers
the ACA isn't causing tax increases
nor job losses or increased debt

when will you all start saying these are good things?
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You are right..... We have let the Cons control the dialogue on this, which they have done by villifying the ACA with silliness like 'death panels' and 'rationing'. Those that actually have a clue what the ACA is, spend too much time debunking the idiocy, which acts to obfuscate the real issue: Why we have the ACA. So, by your request, les't list what the ACA actually does:


- Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
- Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions
- Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
- Requires insurance companies to devote 80-85% of premiums to benefit payments or rebate the difference to its customers
- Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick
- Covers young adults under 26
- Provides free preventive care
- Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits
- Guarantees your right to appeal should coverage be denied
- Through cost control and greater participation by the general public in preventative medicine, should reduce the deficit over the first 10 years by $114B and the next 10 years by $1T.
 
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EdwinWillers said:
Oh stop with the sappy emotionalism for a minute and think about what you're asking, seriously.

Tell me where that argument fit when government-run health care made its first appearance on the political stage? It didn't exist. In fact, it won't exist for decades - that argument is just one of the latest excuses marched forth as "cause" for... for giving the federal government power over 1/6th of this nation's economy.u

People are SO AFRAID of what might happen, they're ready to pee their pants at the very thought of not having insurance should they ever need it. Well, fine - I agree in principle that if we have the ability to curtail reasonable fears about "what might happen if" that we do so. Fair enough?

But answer me this - what makes you think the federal government is the proper entity to do that? What? Or, why MUST we accept the Democrat premise that government-run health care is the ONLY way to "fix" ____________?
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Medicare works just fine.... The insurance exchanges are no different than Medicare Advantage Plans...
 
Juanita said:
Medicare works just fine.... The insurance exchanges are no different than Medicare Advantage Plans...
Click to expand...

There's a downside to those Medicare Advantage Plans. It's very confusing and sometimes it's difficult for the healthcare providers to get paid because of all the plans they have to keep track of.
 
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reinoe said:
There's a downside to those Medicare Advantage Plans. It's very confusing and sometimes it's difficult for the healthcare providers to get paid because of all the plans they have to keep track of.
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All insurance plans can be confusing...They still land up getting paid tho, don't they?
 
aberrant85 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/19/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1379520833-M0U+hZzlocDrMbeP5FlRag

House Bill Cuts Health Funds, Raising Odds of U.S. Shutdown

By JONATHAN WEISMAN and ASHLEY PARKER
Published: September 18, 2013

WASHINGTON — House Republican leaders — bowing to the demands of their conservative wing — will put to a vote on Friday a stopgap spending measure that would strip all funding from President Obama’s signature health care law, increasing the likelihood that the government will shut down in two weeks.

So what's going on here? Another defeat Obamacare vote? And will this shut down the government like in the 90's? If so, will it come back to bite the Republicans in the a**?

Why the urgency to defeat this "train wreck"? If that's what this is, why not let it fail and bring down its Democratic authors? Republicans have shown they can play politics with the welfare of the American people by threatening the full faith and credit of the country, so why not let the law destroy itself, then sweep in and take the credit for predicting it?

My question is, do Republicans fear that ACA will not be the disaster they predict, or even worse, a success, and are trying to sabotage it before they look bad for opposing it? Or is this just a stunt to appease their radical right wing? "Obamacare delenda est"?
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Well it makes sense considering the only collectivists who believe the program is a good idea are the elitist progressives and their sheep while the rest of society that actually work blue collar jobs or those who own small businesses (or even franchises) including democrats know it's epic bull****....

Hell the progressives major voting block - the labor unions are calling bull****....

The only difference is that the progressives/democrats opposed to this socialist nonsense want "waivers" while the rest of us non-socialists and non-democrats want it repealed entirely...

Democrats and progressives are fine with it just as long as they don't have to abide by it...
 
upsideguy said:
Requires insurance companies to devote 80-85% of premiums to benefit payments or rebate the difference to its customers
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I'm confused, that happens oh so very often these days so bear with me. I read through that list and as a former business owner
I can only draw one conclusion. That will put private insurance companies out of business. Now before you attempt to offer a counter argument please
realize that I believe the administration when they stated that they realize that Americans would never accept single payer in one go but phased in over a ten to fifteen year period it would be doable and I agree that is fully possible. The only thing I can't fathom is that the folks on your side actually believe it will save money. SSI Medicare/Medicaid are doomed to insolvency no amount of restriction in services or untenable tax increases can change that...

Basically adding the majority of all American citizens medical care to the Federal budget seems like complete lunacy?

If you look at any piechart for the current Federal budget the only real big expenditures are entitlements and defence
lord knows we can do without the outrageous outlays for the military and still be quite safe but with all the baby boomers soon to put their hands out for their slices of the entitlement pie I can't imagine that any reasonable person would believe the tax burden or the additional amount of public debt is sustainable. For the eight years I had CEO legally attached to my name there were only three things I wanted to know on a daily basis:
how much do we have
how much do we owe
and
how much is coming in
then you'd know if you were in the red or the black
(a daily cashflow calculation)
we are headed as a nation in only one direction, like a runaway freight train and the guys driving the locomotive are pouring on the coal!
 
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Dittohead not! said:
That's a lie I don't even remember having heard, except in the title "Affordable Care Act." Did anyone really believe that "affordable" meant cheaper overall, or merely subsidized by government? If they did, then they were living in a fool's paradise.

"Obamacare" might provide more access to the health care system, but it will do nothing to control the costs, which have been out of control for decades now, and could result in increased costs.

But its opponents will, goldfish like, attribute all of the rising costs to Obamacare and then promise their constituencies to overturn it, which they can't, and then blame all of the outrageous health care costs on Obamacare.

all that instead of coming up with a workable plan that would actually reign in costs. What a circus.
Click to expand...

LOL. Really? LOL.
 
upsideguy said:
You are right..... We have let the Cons control the dialogue on this, which they have done by villifying the ACA with silliness like 'death panels' and 'rationing'. Those that actually have a clue what the ACA is, spend too much time debunking the idiocy, which acts to obfuscate the real issue: Why we have the ACA. So, by your request, les't list what the ACA actually does:


- Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
- Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions
- Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
- Requires insurance companies to devote 80-85% of premiums to benefit payments or rebate the difference to its customers
- Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick
- Covers young adults under 26
- Provides free preventive care
- Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits
- Guarantees your right to appeal should coverage be denied
- Through cost control and greater participation by the general public in preventative medicine, should reduce the deficit over the first 10 years by $114B and the next 10 years by $1T.
Click to expand...


- Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
Where's this place at? What's the secret handshake to get in this place? What page in the yellow pages is it shown on?

- Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions
And people can enroll when? Oh that's right, there will be windows from Oct to Dec. So that's when you better get sick or no insurance for you. Why it's almost exactly like the wait times requited now for people with pre-existing conditions.

- Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
How? They already have demonstrated what they will do if required to lose money. They don't offer insurance.

- Requires insurance companies to devote 80-85% of premiums to benefit payments or rebate the difference to its customers
That a way government. Force companies out of business because they can't cover a bad year. Decreasing completion has what effect on cost? Hint, hint, your wallet gets lighter.

- Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick
And if they do, what? Oh, you'll have to get a lawyer just like now.

- Covers young adults under 26
Good thing too. Because of this law, many (an ever increasing many) of them won't be able to land a job, much less one that provides insurance. To bad for them when they turn 26, they still won't be able to land a good job because of this law.

- Provides free preventive care
Are there people out there that still believe something is free? The dumb remain dumb if so. Costs go up for everybody.

- Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits
And this effects everybody else's insurance cost how? Uh, I know the answer, do you?

- Guarantees your right to appeal should coverage be denied
What's changed here? Not much if anything. You get to go whine to a nameless government employee and hire your own lawyer.

- Through cost control and greater participation by the general public in preventative medicine, should reduce the deficit over the first 10 years by $114B and the next 10 years by $1T.
You put this in for laughs right? Should. LOL. LOL. LOL.......
 
Juanita said:
Medicare works just fine.... The insurance exchanges are no different than Medicare Advantage Plans...
Click to expand...

Medicare will be bankrupt in 10 years and could be sooner as some predict
Trustees: Medicare Will Go Broke in 2016, If You Exclude Obamacare's Double-Counting - Forbes

Medicare has 43 trillion in unfunded liability if you tax every one making over 60,000 and all cooperation's 100% you only would get 7 trillion
Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt - WSJ.com

you call that working just fine? I guess you can call it that if your goal is to bankrupt America
 
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Juanita said:
Medicare works just fine....
Click to expand...
For many years an old sign in our family doctors office read:
we will no longer accept any new medicare patients. When my son was about to graduate prep school (highschool) during a visit
the doc asked him what he was going to study in college, he then went on to say whatever you don't go into medicine!
He said that over the years he was making less and less money (he was already working as many hours as he could)
his cost of operation keep going up, insurance paid less and less (we always paid cash) and his malpractice insurance
was eating him alive, 5 years ago he closed his practice and went to work for an HMO It's driving him nuts because
the insurance company now completely dictates how he practices medicine.

Gawd help us all once the government dictates your medical care :(

oh medicare? between what it cost him to get any money out of them (to pay office staff to file a claim and then wait forever)
and the pittance they were willing to pay, medicare was a loser, it wasn't worth having those patients.

Try and imagine how low the level of care will go, ever talk to someone in Canada that has to wait 3 to 4 months
for a procedure but if they want to pay it will only take a one month wait or if they go to Seattle they can have
that knee with the torn meniscus from the car bicycle accident four months ago (that's how long it took to get an MRI)
fixed this week? My sister in law waited four days to get scheduled for coronary heart bypass surgery in 05 in Newport Beach CA
Imagine being told you are on a wait list that depending on how urgent they think it is can range from 2 to 12 weeks
?
 
trfjr said:
Medicare will be bankrupt in 10 years
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I saw on my SSI statement that I only have paid in like 9,999 bucks to medicare (and another 9,999 employer matching, that number seems suspicious like it's stuck and won't read higher than that?)
thats with a work history starting in 76?
hmmm with a government debt headed towards 21 trillion I doubt I'll see any return on that money how 'bout you ;)
 
Juanita said:
Medicare works just fine.... The insurance exchanges are no different than Medicare Advantage Plans...
Click to expand...
I wish someone would explain to me what is so difficult about answering the question I posed, that you, and the other poster to whom it was originally addressed would keep dodging it?

Here it is again:
But answer me this - what makes you think the federal government is the proper entity to do that [quell people's fear about what might happen to them health-wise]? What? Or, why MUST we accept the Democrat premise that government-run health care is the ONLY way to "fix" ____________?
Click to expand...

It's irrelevant if anyone thinks Medicare "works" - frankly though, there's a host of arguments which could be posed that would vehemently deny that - but that's not the point. The point is the Democrat premise that the only proper entity to run our health care system is the federal government. I've yet to find someone who can (or will, apparently) explain why that is a valid premise. And the thing is - it's NOT a valid premise. But Democrats persist in clinging to it. Why?
 
AngryOldGuy said:
I saw on my SSI statement that I only have paid in like 9,999 bucks to medicare (and another 9,999 employer matching, that number seems suspicious like it's stuck and won't read higher than that?)
thats with a work history starting in 76?
hmmm with a government debt headed towards 21 trillion I doubt I'll see any return on that money how 'bout you ;)
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nope it will all go to pay for the ones many years ahead of me till it runs out and that will be in ten years or less
 
Carleen said:
Just remember whose idea the ACA was before Mr. Obama proposed it.
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I understand what you have been told to believe. The fact is, the Herritage Foundation abandoned their plan as unworkable, and the plan in Massechusetts looks nothing like Obamacare.

It seem apparent nobody has told you the connections don't work. But it's certainly a lazy way to not make a point.
 
Carleen said:
If the government is shut down congress will still receive their salaries, and even if they voted not to take their pay as I've heard one congressman say, most of them are millionaires anyway. So much for the welfare of the people.
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The President of the United States, in moves many have suggested are not allowed by law, has delayed important and critical parts of Obamacare for another year. These waivers and wave offs were caused by the problems business owners and other groups are having trying to implement the program.

The CBO has stated the waive off of the employer mandate will add $10's of billions to the cost of Obamacare. Rational people see Obamacare as deeply flawed, and as not meeting the original objective.

Democrats who control the Senate, and the President, have it within their power to keep the government running by passing the bill that originated in the House. Instead, they are going to put the welfare of the country and others in need, on the back of Obamacare, which is so flawed, the President is doing favors for his benefactors to keep them from being hurt by it's provisions.

How is this a Republican issue?
 
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