Page 46 of 47 FirstFirst ... 3644454647 LastLast
Results 451 to 460 of 466

Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

  1. #451
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    There's nothng for the GOP to be ashamed of. They did what they said, they FINALLY SHOWED A SPINE. This is what the People have been asking for. This is what will fire up the base, this is the will of the People. All polls show no one wants this.

    RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Health Care Law
    Nice try. People are too ill-informed and misinformed to know anything about Obamacare. By this time next year, after people actually live under the full law, we'll see how they feel.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  2. #452
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,246

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Nice try. People are too ill-informed and misinformed to know anything about Obamacare. By this time next year, after people actually live under the full law, we'll see how they feel.
    There is no trying here, what try? I posted a slew of polls that showed the majority doesn't want this. All you're saying is that Big Brother knows what's good for Americans even if they don't. That's a very dangerous presumption to make.

  3. #453
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    There is no trying here, what try? I posted a slew of polls that showed the majority doesn't want this. All you're saying is that Big Brother knows what's good for Americans even if they don't. That's a very dangerous presumption to make.
    This line of reasoning is so backwards. People have been asking for healthcare reform for decades! They were asking for it up to and during the drafting of Obamacare. Once it was passed a bunch of panicky idiots started crying "death panel" and "socialism" and gave enough people pause, until actual experience will set them straight.

    It is the conservative ideologues that rule the Republican party that think they know better than Americans what's good for them. Their answer is freedom, freedom, all the time freedom, hammered home so incessantly that the word becomes devoid of meeting. Freedom, in this case, of course, means the freedom from having the government help you get health care when the free market denies it to you. At what point does the abstract concept of unfettered freedom become inferior to the very real security and piece of mind of healthcare?

    Republicans are the ones who believe that more freedom and more uncertainty are better for Americans than more security.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  4. #454
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,246

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    This line of reasoning is so backwards. People have been asking for healthcare reform for decades! They were asking for it up to and during the drafting of Obamacare. Once it was passed a bunch of panicky idiots started crying "death panel" and "socialism" and gave enough people pause, until actual experience will set them straight.
    No it isn't. People have wanted HCR for decades, but not just any old, see look what we gave you, you're gonna love it after ya hate it BS that comes along. I keep repeating myself on this but to give you the benefit of the doubt of not having seen -- I am a supporter of UHC. I prefer the Nordic Way as something we should have modeled ours on. The Nordic Model though has a different outlook. The Nords said at the start we are going to give each and everyone of our citizens the very best possible HC we can. That's not what this is. This is us saying everyone should put money in the kitty and pay insurance companies billions to allow any Tom, Dick, or Barry to get treated like welfare patients anytime they need it. We didn't follow the Nordic Model we have a train wreck, just to say we have reform no matter what it costs us.

    It is the conservative ideologues that rule the Republican party that think they know better than Americans what's good for them. Their answer is freedom, freedom, all the time freedom, hammered home so incessantly that the word becomes devoid of meeting. Freedom, in this case, of course, means the freedom from having the government help you get health care when the free market denies it to you. At what point does the abstract concept of unfettered freedom become inferior to the very real security and piece of mind of healthcare?

    Republicans are the ones who believe that more freedom and more uncertainty are better for Americans than more security.
    The Establishment is neither conservative nor ideologues, and they run the GOP. Don't let Mother Jones, Adbusters, MSNBC, or Salon send you astray. Freedom shoud never become inferior to security. Never. And freedom isn't an abstract concept being free to no have money taken out of your check one way or the other and be forced to purchase something is very tangible.

  5. #455
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    No it isn't. People have wanted HCR for decades, but not just any old, see look what we gave you, you're gonna love it after ya hate it BS that comes along. I keep repeating myself on this but to give you the benefit of the doubt of not having seen -- I am a supporter of UHC. I prefer the Nordic Way as something we should have modeled ours on. The Nordic Model though has a different outlook. The Nords said at the start we are going to give each and everyone of our citizens the very best possible HC we can. That's not what this is. This is us saying everyone should put money in the kitty and pay insurance companies billions to allow any Tom, Dick, or Barry to get treated like welfare patients anytime they need it. We didn't follow the Nordic Model we have a train wreck, just to say we have reform no matter what it costs us.



    The Establishment is neither conservative nor ideologues, and they run the GOP. Don't let Mother Jones, Adbusters, MSNBC, or Salon send you astray. Freedom shoud never become inferior to security. Never. And freedom isn't an abstract concept being free to no have money taken out of your check one way or the other and be forced to purchase something is very tangible.
    Nordic model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Nordic model is distinguished from other types of welfare states by its emphasis on maximizing labor force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, the large magnitude of wealth redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy.


    Universal Health Care sounds great to me, but from that description I doubt it would satisfy your idea of freedom. If you hate the idea of a 1% tax penalty for opting out of ACA, what do you think you will pay for true UHC?

    We both know that health care has been dismal, and that any reform to it would be met by fierce opposition given that, as has been pointed out, the industry represents 17% of our economy. Any solution that could realistically have succeeded had a necessity to maneuver around the myriad obstacles in its path. That's why the law is 2000 pages long and not 20.

    I'm a liberal, but I'm a pragmatist first and foremost. I much prefer a moderate plan that succeeds to the ideal plan that never sees the light of day.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  6. #456
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,246

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Universal Health Care sounds great to me, but from that description I doubt it would satisfy your idea of freedom. If you hate the idea of a 1% tax penalty for opting out of ACA, what do you think you will pay for true UHC?

    We both know that health care has been dismal, and that any reform to it would be met by fierce opposition given that, as has been pointed out, the industry represents 17% of our economy. Any solution that could realistically have succeeded had a necessity to maneuver around the myriad obstacles in its path. That's why the law is 2000 pages long and not 20.

    I'm a liberal, but I'm a pragmatist first and foremost. I much prefer a moderate plan that succeeds to the ideal plan that never sees the light of day.

    I think you confuse my resistance against who I'm paying with having to pay at all. I have insurance. I get it through my wife now but there was a time not too long ago I was paying 100% out of pocket for it. So I'm not sitting here like some Randian school boy talking out his Atlas...

    I don't see a law chocked full of loopholes, exemptions, kickbacks, twists, turns, bobs and weaves as being a pragmatic solution. And last I checked we elect our government, we can make them set up any type of HCR we want...

  7. #457
    Professor
    yobarnacle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    10-26-14 @ 11:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,495

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    This line of reasoning is so backwards. People have been asking for healthcare reform for decades! They were asking for it up to and during the drafting of Obamacare. Once it was passed a bunch of panicky idiots started crying "death panel" and "socialism" and gave enough people pause, until actual experience will set them straight.

    It is the conservative ideologues that rule the Republican party that think they know better than Americans what's good for them. Their answer is freedom, freedom, all the time freedom, hammered home so incessantly that the word becomes devoid of meeting. Freedom, in this case, of course, means the freedom from having the government help you get health care when the free market denies it to you. At what point does the abstract concept of unfettered freedom become inferior to the very real security and piece of mind of healthcare?

    Republicans are the ones who believe that more freedom and more uncertainty are better for Americans than more security.
    Ben Franklin
    "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."


    "In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war* and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms*, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

    Sam Adams
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

  8. #458
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,829

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    This line of reasoning is so backwards. People have been asking for healthcare reform for decades! They were asking for it up to and during the drafting of Obamacare. Once it was passed a bunch of panicky idiots started crying "death panel" and "socialism" and gave enough people pause, until actual experience will set them straight.

    It is the conservative ideologues that rule the Republican party that think they know better than Americans what's good for them. Their answer is freedom, freedom, all the time freedom, hammered home so incessantly that the word becomes devoid of meeting. Freedom, in this case, of course, means the freedom from having the government help you get health care when the free market denies it to you. At what point does the abstract concept of unfettered freedom become inferior to the very real security and piece of mind of healthcare?

    Republicans are the ones who believe that more freedom and more uncertainty are better for Americans than more security.
    So Right. They want freedom alright. The want to free women from making choices about their own bodies, free minorities from the bother of voting, and of course free the poor from the ability to get health insurance. It's like Animal Farm.
    They complain that hiring is being slowed by "uncertainty" and then their leaders follow a path that provides uncertainty after uncertainty in the form of short term CR's and pointless debt ceiling posturing. How stupid do they think the American people are?

  9. #459
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,987

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post

    The Nordic model is distinguished from other types of welfare states by its emphasis on maximizing labor force participation, promoting gender equality, egalitarian and extensive benefit levels, the large magnitude of wealth redistribution, and liberal use of expansionary fiscal policy.


    Universal Health Care sounds great to me, but from that description I doubt it would satisfy your idea of freedom. If you hate the idea of a 1% tax penalty for opting out of ACA, what do you think you will pay for true UHC?

    We both know that health care has been dismal, and that any reform to it would be met by fierce opposition given that, as has been pointed out, the industry represents 17% of our economy. Any solution that could realistically have succeeded had a necessity to maneuver around the myriad obstacles in its path. That's why the law is 2000 pages long and not 20.

    I'm a liberal, but I'm a pragmatist first and foremost. I much prefer a moderate plan that succeeds to the ideal plan that never sees the light of day.

    The Dutch government has all but declared the Nordic model to be unsustainable. So judging by the path of the current US administration that means they're really going to start the heavy push now to implement it and use The Netherlands as their model.

    I mean, we lauded the Spanish energy policy while it was in the process of melting down, and the Massachusetts health insurance reform as it was eating the state budget alive, and pressured Chrysler into selling to Fiat when Fiat couldn't even sell cars in Italy. So sure, why not push for a welfare state that is in the process of unwinding...

  10. #460
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by yobarnacle View Post
    Ben Franklin
    "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."


    "In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war* and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms*, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

    Sam Adams
    Fish and house guests both stink after three days.
    -Ben Franklin

    So deep!
    "Obamacare delenda est"

Page 46 of 47 FirstFirst ... 3644454647 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •