Page 34 of 47 FirstFirst ... 24323334353644 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 340 of 466

Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

  1. #331
    Sage
    polgara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,343

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The President of the United States, in moves many have suggested are not allowed by law, has delayed important and critical parts of Obamacare for another year. These waivers and wave offs were caused by the problems business owners and other groups are having trying to implement the program.

    The CBO has stated the waive off of the employer mandate will add $10's of billions to the cost of Obamacare. Rational people see Obamacare as deeply flawed, and as not meeting the original objective.

    Democrats who control the Senate, and the President, have it within their power to keep the government running by passing the bill that originated in the House. Instead, they are going to put the welfare of the country and others in need, on the back of Obamacare, which is so flawed, the President is doing favors for his benefactors to keep them from being hurt by it's provisions.

    How is this a Republican issue?
    Greetings, ocean515.

    It has never been a Republican issue, since not one Republican voted for it! Not one! The Dems totally own this mess, including the bribes and arm-twisting that it took to get it passed! In their haste to avoid taking the blame for this "trainwreck," the Dems are overlooking the fact that those members of the House who are spearheading the effort for change are doing what their constituents voted them in to do! Facts are damned inconvenient sometimes, but that doesn't change just because someone says otherwise! More than a majority of Americans wants Obamacare repealed and replaced with something workable!

    And now the CBO states that it's going to add tens of billions of dollars in cost to Obamacare? C'mon, that picture is much too disgusting to consider, but it is the icing on a cake few want to eat! :

  2. #332
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,068

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    - Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
    Where's this place at? What's the secret handshake to get in this place? What page in the yellow pages is it shown on?
    Congratulations. You have finally engaged in the correct debate: the debate of the features, advantages and benefits of the ACA vs. its cost. Unfortunately, this was the correct debate four years ago. The ACA is the law of the land and just now getting into debate over the FAB v Cost is moot.

    If you don't understand healthcare exchanges, your don't understand the ACA. Its a bit difficult to have intelligent debate when you don't know what you are talking about.... But every state was to set up an exchange: a marketplace where persons can buy individual insurance products that conform to ACA standards. Every state has one (oh, except those red states that threw a hissy after the ACA was passed and said they would not participate). Here is the one from my state:

    Home | Connect for Health Colorado

    The primary purpose of the ACA is to expand healthcare coverage to all (or as close to all as possible). One of the tenants of making healthcare affordable (to the extent we can actually have affordable healthcare in a system that is the most expensive in the world) is to pool individuals seeking coverage with other individuals seeking coverage. The marketplace helps to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post

    - Requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing health conditions
    And people can enroll when? Oh that's right, there will be windows from Oct to Dec. So that's when you better get sick or no insurance for you. Why it's almost exactly like the wait times requited now for people with pre-existing conditions.

    - Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
    How? They already have demonstrated what they will do if required to lose money. They don't offer insurance.

    - Requires insurance companies to devote 80-85% of premiums to benefit payments or rebate the difference to its customers
    That a way government. Force companies out of business because they can't cover a bad year. Decreasing completion has what effect on cost? Hint, hint, your wallet gets lighter.

    - Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to arbitrarily cancel your health insurance just because you get sick
    And if they do, what? Oh, you'll have to get a lawyer just like now.

    - Covers young adults under 26
    Good thing too. Because of this law, many (an ever increasing many) of them won't be able to land a job, much less one that provides insurance. To bad for them when they turn 26, they still won't be able to land a good job because of this law.

    - Provides free preventive care
    Are there people out there that still believe something is free? The dumb remain dumb if so. Costs go up for everybody.

    - Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits on coverage of essential health benefits
    And this effects everybody else's insurance cost how? Uh, I know the answer, do you?

    - Guarantees your right to appeal should coverage be denied
    What's changed here? Not much if anything. You get to go whine to a nameless government employee and hire your own lawyer.
    The fundamental axiom behind the ACA is that preventive medicine is cheaper than emergency room medicine. A main operating assumption is that we, as a society, are paying for the coverage of the uninsured at the cost of $116B per year; the taxpayers (you and I) currently pay $75B of that and the rest ($42.7B) gets absorbed by the providers. As you aptly pointed out, there is no free lunch. Someone has to pay. Well, that someone are those that buy insurance. Do you know that the average families health insurance premiums include about $1,000 per year to pay the costs of the uninsured?

    Unpaid care hikes private insurance premiums by billions - amednews.com

    Not only that, you are paying for the most expensive type of care: emergency room care. With nearly 46 million people without health insurance coverage, most are excluded from the preventive side of medicine. Much like spending $19.95 on your oil change next week could save you a much more expensive new engine in five years, dictating that insurance plans provide free preventative will save those insurance companies (and medicaid) a fortune in 20 years. That is why the benefits of the ACA will be realized in the long-term rather than currently. Similarly, the idea of getting EVERYONE in the system, particularly the young through the individual mandate broadens the insurance pool and shifts the emphasis to the much cheaper prevention, which shall reap benefits over the long-run. Yes, we have some front end costs by suddenly ending pre-existing condition waivers and allowing insurance companies to terminate you because you are too expensive. This will have some short-run costs for a long-run benefit that exceeds this cost.

    Now, to put this somewhat in context, since you seem to be pleading the case of the marginally profitable, oppressed private insurance companies.... first, they are not. They stand to gain the most from this, as they have a mandate new market of the highly profitable young many of whom are uninsured. Moreover, the concept of "for-profit" medicine in this country is fairly new. Prior to 1980, most private health insurance was provided by the "Blues" (Blue Cross-Blue Shield), which were highly regulated not-for-profit entities; and most hospitals in the US were also non-profit charitable organizations.

    I have not done the research comparing the privatization of healthcare in this country with cost, but I am going to. I would be very surprised if you could not draw a relationship that strongly suggests that since privatization our healthcare has become increasingly more expensive and less efficient. We do know that right now it is the most expensive and less efficient in the world.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...are-ludicrous/



    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post

    - Through cost control and greater participation by the general public in preventative medicine, should reduce the deficit over the first 10 years by $114B and the next 10 years by $1T.
    You put this in for laughs right? Should. LOL. LOL. LOL.......
    No, from the CBO. But, given how uninformed you are on the rest of this, I guess I shouldn't expect you to know that either.

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...0Estimates.pdf
    Last edited by upsideguy; 09-22-13 at 03:49 PM.

  3. #333
    Be different, be honest
    EdwinWillers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Divided States of Kardashia
    Last Seen
    12-25-15 @ 04:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,361

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    Government health care is the only viable alternative for those who can't afford their own health care. The other choice is to let them die in the street.
    ...and yet it's more expensive than what one could purchase privately. How do you explain that?
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

  4. #334
    Professor
    yobarnacle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    10-26-14 @ 11:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,495

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    When I die, I want to go peaceably in my sleep, like my grandpa.


    Not yelling and screaming like his passengers in his car!
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

  5. #335
    Guru
    Carleen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    3,615

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I understand what you have been told to believe. The fact is, the Herritage Foundation abandoned their plan as unworkable, and the plan in Massechusetts looks nothing like Obamacare.

    It seem apparent nobody has told you the connections don't work. But it's certainly a lazy way to not make a point.
    The plan in Mass is working and the people like it. Please tell me what the difference is. I thought is was like the ACA. I need facts. Thank you
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

  6. #336
    Educator
    Slyhunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    06-22-15 @ 03:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,041

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    ...and yet it's more expensive than what one could purchase privately. How do you explain that?
    It covers things private insurance doesn't. Stupid things like gender changes and condoms probably.
    Islam is an antiquated religion and needs to either modernize with the times or be completely eradicated.
    There are two types of Muslims, terrorists, and their enablers. They need to fix that if they want to be part of civilized society.

  7. #337
    Guru
    Carleen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    3,615

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The President of the United States, in moves many have suggested are not allowed by law, has delayed important and critical parts of Obamacare for another year. These waivers and wave offs were caused by the problems business owners and other groups are having trying to implement the program.

    The CBO has stated the waive off of the employer mandate will add $10's of billions to the cost of Obamacare. Rational people see Obamacare as deeply flawed, and as not meeting the original objective.

    Democrats who control the Senate, and the President, have it within their power to keep the government running by passing the bill that originated in the House. Instead, they are going to put the welfare of the country and others in need, on the back of Obamacare, which is so flawed, the President is doing favors for his benefactors to keep them from being hurt by it's provisions.

    How is this a Republican issue?
    Instead of trying to work together on the ACA republicans just want to end it. It's the law and their attempts are futile. Even if the government is shut down it will not acheive their purpose of ending the ACA. Plain stupid IMO
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

  8. #338
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Congratulations. You have finally engaged in the correct debate: the debate of the features, advantages and benefits of the ACA vs. its cost. Unfortunately, this was the correct debate four years ago. The ACA is the law of the land and just now getting into debate over the FAB v Cost is moot.

    If you don't understand healthcare exchanges, your don't understand the ACA. Its a bit difficult to have intelligent debate when you don't know what you are talking about.... But every state was to set up an exchange: a marketplace where persons can buy individual insurance products that conform to ACA standards. Every state has one (oh, except those red states that threw a hissy after the ACA was passed and said they would not participate). Here is the one from my state:

    Home | Connect for Health Colorado

    The primary purpose of the ACA is to expand healthcare coverage to all (or as close to all as possible). One of the tenants of making healthcare affordable (to the extent we can actually have affordable healthcare in a system that is the most expensive in the world) is to pool individuals seeking coverage with other individuals seeking coverage. The marketplace helps to do that.



    The fundamental axiom behind the ACA is that preventive medicine is cheaper than emergency room medicine. A main operating assumption is that we, as a society, are paying for the coverage of the uninsured at the cost of $116B per year; the taxpayers (you and I) currently pay $75B of that and the rest ($42.7B) gets absorbed by the providers. As you aptly pointed out, there is no free lunch. Someone has to pay. Well, that someone are those that buy insurance. Do you know that the average families health insurance premiums include about $1,000 per year to pay the costs of the uninsured?

    Unpaid care hikes private insurance premiums by billions - amednews.com

    Not only that, you are paying for the most expensive type of care: emergency room care. With nearly 46 million people without health insurance coverage, most are excluded from the preventive side of medicine. Much like spending $19.95 on your oil change next week could save you a much more expensive new engine in five years, dictating that insurance plans provide free preventative will save those insurance companies (and medicaid) a fortune in 20 years. That is why the benefits of the ACA will be realized in the long-term rather than currently. Similarly, the idea of getting EVERYONE in the system, particularly the young through the individual mandate broadens the insurance pool and shifts the emphasis to the much cheaper prevention, which shall reap benefits over the long-run. Yes, we have some front end costs by suddenly ending pre-existing condition waivers and allowing insurance companies to terminate you because you are too expensive. This will have some short-run costs for a long-run benefit that exceeds this cost.

    Now, to put this somewhat in context, since you seem to be pleading the case of the marginally profitable, oppressed private insurance companies.... first, they are not. They stand to gain the most from this, as they have a mandate new market of the highly profitable young many of whom are uninsured. Moreover, the concept of "for-profit" medicine in this country is fairly new. Prior to 1980, most private health insurance was provided by the "Blues" (Blue Cross-Blue Shield), which were highly regulated not-for-profit entities; and most hospitals in the US were also non-profit charitable organizations.

    I have not done the research comparing the privatization of healthcare in this country with cost, but I am going to. I would be very surprised if you could not draw a relationship that strongly suggests that since privatization our healthcare has become increasingly more expensive and less efficient. We do know that right now it is the most expensive and less efficient in the world.

    21 graphs that show America’s health-care prices are ludicrous





    No, from the CBO. But, given how uninformed you are on the rest of this, I guess I shouldn't expect you to know that either.

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...0Estimates.pdf
    Nice try but no sale. It is difficult to have intelligent debate when you don't lay all the cards on the table. But it's no surprise as when the bill was rammed down the throats of Americans, who didn't want this bill to pass, the same tactic was employed.

    States were allowed to set up their own exchanges. But the law says states don't have to if they don't want to and the federal government will have to do it. The only fit being throw is by the feds because they are required to in states that don't want to carry the water for them. The feds of course have failed. No surprise there.

    Like people that live in the other 49 states (or is it 56), I don't care what Colorado does, I don't live there. (Thank goodness).

    Obamacare is not going to stop people from going to the ER for healthcare. There is not enough Doctors in America for everybody to have a personal care physician. I suppose the feds will try to get around that by requiring people to see a Nurse or somebody with a first aid badge from the boy scouts but people are still going to head to the ER. So there goes that make believe savings. The only difference is the taxpayers will get stung twice instead of once for the same ER visit.

    Studies have already shown that having health insurance has little positive effect on a persons health. I think it was the state of Oregon that disproved that theory. So wave good by to that money we're supposed to saving. Funny how government programs have that happen all the time.

    $1,000 a year to pay for the uninsured? I haven't seen the figure before but lets say it's true. Now deduct the cost of Obamacare . Opps, it was cheaper for everybody not to have this law. No cost savings there. Last week I saw an interview with this Obamacare guru on TV and she laid it out plain. It would have been much cheaper to leave everybody alone except for the people that didn't have health insurance and for the feds just to buy it for those that didn't. That didn't happen of course as the real purpose behind this law is not health care or health insurance but controlling peoples lives to the Dems satisfaction.

    If the insurance companies have so much to gain why are some dropping coverage in some places? That's right, there is nothing for them to gain but plenty for them to lose. But this is what the Dems wanted anyway. Providing health insurance was just a lie to get them to a position where they can falsely claim a single payer system is the way to go.

    CBO? LOL. Remember the cost of Obamacare was only to cost 1 Trillion for ten years when the Dems were telling their lies to the American people. Last I saw it is now 2 Trillion. CBO did both estimates. The way you keep your head in the sand on Obamacare I wouldn't expect you to point that out.

    This law is a disaster.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  9. #339
    Professor
    yobarnacle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    10-26-14 @ 11:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,495

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    I've been shouting for congress to grow some balls. Now they have. and a new tactic to keep the 'king' in check. Defund! Defund! Defund the justice dept. Defund EPA. Defund Homeland security. Defund illegal wars. Defund the WhiteHouse. I'm ENJOYING this!
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

  10. #340
    Professor
    yobarnacle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    10-26-14 @ 11:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,495

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    Instead of trying to work together on the ACA republicans just want to end it. It's the law and their attempts are futile. Even if the government is shut down it will not acheive their purpose of ending the ACA. Plain stupid IMO
    Then why are you crying, if it won't matter?
    Sounds to me, all the libs crying about it, it catches them by the short and curlies and yanks em viciously!
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

Page 34 of 47 FirstFirst ... 24323334353644 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •