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Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    What's this temporary bull****? Can we please shut down the federal government permanently? They really aren't any good for anything.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    What's this temporary bull****? Can we please shut down the federal government permanently? They really aren't any good for anything.

    Anarchy?

    I'm curious: who remembers the last government shutdown? I was too busy playing with LEGO to care. Was it awful, or was it no big deal? And with the economy today, would it be worse now?
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Anarchy?

    I'm curious: who remembers the last government shutdown? I was too busy playing with LEGO to care. Was it awful, or was it no big deal? And with the economy today, would it be worse now?
    Not anarchy, shut down the Federal government. With state and local governments, we don't need a federal government. We could function just fine without it.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    It's actually a brilliant move. It's a good way to make a public statement about who you should vote for if you want a shot in hell of repealing Obamacare in the future.

    Think of it like intellectual gerrymandering.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    It's actually a brilliant move. It's a good way to make a public statement about who you should vote for if you want a shot in hell of repealing Obamacare in the future.

    Think of it like intellectual gerrymandering.
    I like that... "intellectual gerrymandering."
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    the last government shutdown?
    Nothing changed except the the fact that the Republicans won and we got a cut in the rate of growth of government, this time the stakes are so much higher and it is a foregone conclusion that we will fail to defund Osamacare so it is all pointlessness in the extreme
    New Hope for the Wretched era

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    Nothing changed except the the fact that the Republicans won and we got a cut in the rate of growth of government, this time the stakes are so much higher and it is a foregone conclusion that we will fail to defund Osamacare so it is all pointlessness in the extreme
    You gotta try to stay positive here. There's more going on than the infinitesimally small amount we see through the multi-colored filters we're allowed. We believe in the average American. The average American hasn't changed; you just rarely hear from them. But the average American isn't dumb either. They see what's going one. They may not be uber sophisticated, hyper intellectuals with scads of worthless graduate degrees. They're out there busting their butts making a living for themselves and their families, trying to better their lives and create futures for their children.

    Here's something to encourage you, remembering.... it's all about who you talk to.... and why:

    Obama Voters.jpg
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    Nothing changed except the the fact that the Republicans won and we got a cut in the rate of growth of government, this time the stakes are so much higher and it is a foregone conclusion that we will fail to defund Osamacare so it is all pointlessness in the extreme
    Hmmmm the biggest grower of government the last 30 years has been Republicans??? You have me so confused

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by greengirl77 View Post
    so confused
    no need for confusion, when in doubt


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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    So what's going on here? Another defeat Obamacare vote? And will this shut down the government like in the 90's? If so, will it come back to bite the Republicans in the a**?
    It's similar to a defeat Obamacare vote, but differently as they're attaching it to something that is actual leverage now.

    The Government isn't funded after October 1st at this moment. The Republicans are suggesting passing a bill in the House which would fund the government, except for Obamacare, through December. (This short term funding is called a "Continuing Resolution" and has historically been used often to give additional time to get an actual Fiscal year "budget" passed for the whole year).

    So basically putting an option before the Senate...take a bill that keeps the government running, but defunds Obamacare or shut the government down entirely.

    Whether it would bite the Republicans in the ass or not is hard to say as it'll rely completley on how each side spins their argument after the fact (were it to happen).

    Republicans would suggest that they took initiative to pass a bill that would fund the government, and were seeking to stop a highly unpopular law.

    Democrats would suggest the Republicans held the government hostage to kill Obamacare, and that their attempts to keep the Government open wasn't in good faith.

    People on either side will think their sides view is generally correct and the other sides view is full of crap. People in the middle will likely be swayed by who puts forth their argument better.

    Why the urgency to defeat this "train wreck"? If that's what this is, why not let it fail and bring down its Democratic authors?
    Because, historically, once you actually have people participating in a social welfare program it is ridiculously difficult to take it away. Despite ACA passing a while back, it's not really been implimented in such a way that people are largely and widely being covered under it's provisions. That starts on October 1st currently. So that's kind of the "deadline" to be able to reasonably stop it prior to the point where it becomes an actual social welfare program that you'd then be "taking away" from people.

    Republicans have shown they can play politics with the welfare of the American people by threatening the full faith and credit of the country, so why not let the law destroy itself, then sweep in and take the credit for predicting it?
    Aaaaaaaand to my earlier point. Thanks for highlighting how liberals will try to paint it, and stating your view and opinion of it as if it's fact. It's amazing how that just flows off partisans tongues when speaking of things.

    My question is, do Republicans fear that ACA will not be the disaster they predict, or even worse, a success, and are trying to sabotage it before they look bad for opposing it? Or is this just a stunt to appease their radical right wing? "Obamacare delenda est"?
    So your question isn't an honest one in the least, and this entire post just devolved into stereotypical hyper partisan drivel. Gotcha.

    No, the general mindset of Republicans is that the cost of it will be overwhelming and ultimately a negative on our economy and our budget but that it will follow the standard path of most social welfare programs that, regardless of their level of success, tend to be very difficult to remove. In terms of political campaigning as well, once it actually goes into affect and people get insurance under the program it makes it FAR more difficult to campaign against as well because it becomes a point that the other side can claim you're trying to take peoples insurance away.

    Now, whether or not it actually DOES cause the cost of government to rise as much as Republicans fear...that's to be seen. And surely, if the cost DOESN'T go up, they would have an even HARDER time to remove it after the fact. But the baseline of their fear is a historically understood fact amongst the Political Science community in terms of social welfare programs and their status as some of the hardest programs to remove once people are actually involved in it. Based largely on the fact that basic human nature is more reticent to give up something they HAVE or believe they have, as opposed to something they don't.

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