Page 19 of 47 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 466

Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

  1. #181
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    The fact that people will lose the health care plans they all ready on. Many Companies will make full time employees to part time because it will be to expensive for them. You will be fined by the government if you don't have health care coverage. If you do keep your current plan you will be paying more for less.
    I am sure that some companies will do that. I'm sure some companies will not. To me that seems no different than how many companies operate right now. Why don't we see how it goes?

    You might pay more for health care, but you might pay less. And you might pay more without the law anyway, there's nothing stopping your insurance company. But it is absolutely false that you will receive less. There will no longer be caps on your coverage, and preventive care, childhood immunizations and adult vaccinations, and medical screenings will be covered by your premium and not cost any extra.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  2. #182
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Second, I know it's typical liberal bleeding-heart stuff, but if health care gets a little more expensive and covers a little more people, I think that's the morally superior option.
    The problem is that the cost will be a good bit more than a little more expensive. And I think that the coverage of other people is a mirage mostly.

    I don't see how it will be more "scarce" if more people receive it.
    If you do not pay the doctors and other health care workers their due then there will be fewer such people and they will be scarcer. If you do not pay hospitals and other facilities a reasonable for use of high tech equipment then some of the existing equipment will eventually be retired and do not expect any to be replaced or newer toch equipment to be funded.


    And Americans receive worse health care for more money than other parts of the world already, so that's not an argument to go back to the status quo.
    The costs of health care tend to be due to how government has interfered with the existing market and how it doesn't require transparency giving the patient knowledge to manage the costs. States choose which insurance companies are allowed to do business in their State they restrict what types of heath care that insurance companies can offer (such as the Cadillac Plans only). The hospitals that charge a $1.50 for a OTC pain pill that would cost the hospital $0.05 or so and other such inflated services tacked on.

    And with respect to the quality of the health care, if we get the health care we get it sooner that other countries. We do not have to wait months for a procedure that at most would take a few weeks and mostly would take a few days. Cancer patients lifespan without treatment are often measured in months and I would not trust myself to a foreign system that would make me wait long enough where I could die before their bureaucracy will approve and get an appointment for treatment.

    We do not need the status quo. What is necessary is a reform of heath care not a raising of it.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  3. #183
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    I am sure that some companies will do that. I'm sure some companies will not. To me that seems no different than how many companies operate right now. Why don't we see how it goes?

    You might pay more for health care, but you might pay less. And you might pay more without the law anyway, there's nothing stopping your insurance company. But it is absolutely false that you will receive less. There will no longer be caps on your coverage, and preventive care, childhood immunizations and adult vaccinations, and medical screenings will be covered by your premium and not cost any extra.
    It's a miracle.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #184
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The problem is that the cost will be a good bit more than a little more expensive. And I think that the coverage of other people is a mirage mostly.



    If you do not pay the doctors and other health care workers their due then there will be fewer such people and they will be scarcer. If you do not pay hospitals and other facilities a reasonable for use of high tech equipment then some of the existing equipment will eventually be retired and do not expect any to be replaced or newer toch equipment to be funded.




    The costs of health care tend to be due to how government has interfered with the existing market and how it doesn't require transparency giving the patient knowledge to manage the costs. States choose which insurance companies are allowed to do business in their State they restrict what types of heath care that insurance companies can offer (such as the Cadillac Plans only). The hospitals that charge a $1.50 for a OTC pain pill that would cost the hospital $0.05 or so and other such inflated services tacked on.

    And with respect to the quality of the health care, if we get the health care we get it sooner that other countries. We do not have to wait months for a procedure that at most would take a few weeks and mostly would take a few days. Cancer patients lifespan without treatment are often measured in months and I would not trust myself to a foreign system that would make me wait long enough where I could die before their bureaucracy will approve and get an appointment for treatment.

    We do not need the status quo. What is necessary is a reform of heath care not a raising of it.
    Yeah, hospitals can charge $10 for an aspirin. It's sick. So lets build on the law to make everything more transparent. Why would you have to repeal it to do that?
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  5. #185
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    There will no longer be caps on your coverage, and preventive care, childhood immunizations and adult vaccinations, and medical screenings will be covered by your premium and not cost any extra.
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It's a miracle.
    That's the glib dismissal of actual facts that have undercut the conservative position on Obamacare this entire time.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  6. #186
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    That's the glib dismissal of actual facts that have undercut the conservative position on Obamacare this entire time.
    Sure, and all the waivers mean nothing.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #187
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Sure, and all the waivers mean nothing.
    What would repeal or defunding be? One big waiver.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  8. #188
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Insurance companies have been known to gladly take their customers money in the form of premiums, then once they need their insurance for an operation or condition, suddenly the insurance company will unearth a pre-existing condition and drop their customer. According to them, eczema and acne are a preexisting condition.
    If the insurance company violated the contract or has denied a claim for spurious reasons then there should be legal options for the insuree. Furthermore if this is a pattern then the State can bar further enrollees for the company for a time, and if applicable charges of fraud could be leveled. Also the Federal Government should require that the Courts in the State of the enrollee be the one to hear any civil or adjudication case and not the State the insurer is in.

    Yes, I get it. They are a business, and business must make money to exist. But when they go to such lengths do deny their services to those that need it the most, doesn't that say something?
    Clarity in what is covered under a particular policy would be a proper role of government. Dictating the acceptable polices would not be however and there should be a free market for various insurance polices providing what is needed.

    That said the health care providers must be paid their due. And the due can be quite high if one is getting care from a top notch specialist being examined by equipment that costs a few million dollars.


    In my opinion, the private health insurance industry is like the oil industry. Both essentially belong in the 20th century and don't make much sense in the future.[/QUOTE]
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  9. #189
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's an effort to usurp legislative power that the GOP does not possess, and the general public is going to realize that. Anyone who blames this potential shutdown on Democrats is already a partisan hack and their opinion was never going to change on the subject.
    The House has the Power of the Purse. Republicans control the House. There is no usurpation since they are within the confines of their role on governance. And there is no reason for the Senate to reject the House bill except for political ends. And the President should sign it also since there is no reason to sign the parts of the budget that have been passed.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  10. #190
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    If the insurance company violated the contract or has denied a claim for spurious reasons then there should be legal options for the insuree. Furthermore if this is a pattern then the State can bar further enrollees for the company for a time, and if applicable charges of fraud could be leveled. Also the Federal Government should require that the Courts in the State of the enrollee be the one to hear any civil or adjudication case and not the State the insurer is in.

    Clarity in what is covered under a particular policy would be a proper role of government. Dictating the acceptable polices would not be however and there should be a free market for various insurance polices providing what is needed.

    That said the health care providers must be paid their due. And the due can be quite high if one is getting care from a top notch specialist being examined by equipment that costs a few million dollars.
    I gotta tell ya, a lot of money the hospitals make don't go to doctors, they go to bulls*** projects. I worked at an agency that was hired by a hospital to put a $2 million art installation in a new ward that itself would cost multiple millions. Everyone involved talked about how great it was, but it bothered me that so much money was going into what was essentially a luxury that nobody needed. Better that they save the people who needed the care the money they would have spent. In this sense, people like me that are supportive of Obamacare like it because it at least does something instead of just letting this perverse system go on unchanged.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

Page 19 of 47 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •