Page 14 of 47 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 466

Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

  1. #131
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    even Joe lunchbox should be terrified by this eventuality but he can't even balance his own checkbook. trust the AngryOldGuy when he sez:

    But there will be more known unknowns than unknown unknowns. And what is known is more Leviathan than dragon.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  2. #132
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Is Obamacare right or wrong?
    'partisan hack'
    yes we should all get free stuff

    "person with a functional brain"
    um no socialism always fails so it is a really bwad idea
    New Hope for the Wretched era

  3. #133
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    But there will be more known unknowns than unknown unknowns. And what is known is more Leviathan than dragon.
    Trust my friend it may be unknowable until we arrive but there could be tears and rivers of blood along the way?

  4. #134
    Assassin
    Verax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    9,552

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    I don't believe the GOP has any chance of actually changing anything with this... So basically they're holding the country hostage for a period to broadcast just how much they hate Obamacare.

    What does this accomplish other than getting everyone riled up? Is that really what we want? More pissed off people screaming at the top of their lungs how much they disagree? Does this lead to a healthier democracy?

    I really see no value in this, only negativity and regression. Its a stone's throw away from sabotage which the GOP always denies doing...

  5. #135
    Pragmatist
    AlabamaPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 11:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,834

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I don't believe the GOP has any chance of actually changing anything with this... So basically they're holding the country hostage for a period to broadcast just how much they hate Obamacare.

    What does this accomplish other than getting everyone riled up? Is that really what we want? More pissed off people screaming at the top of their lungs how much they disagree? Does this lead to a healthier democracy?

    I really see no value in this, only negativity and regression. Its a stone's throw away from sabotage which the GOP always denies doing...
    They are doing what their constituents asked them to do when they were elected. Is that a bad thing?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  6. #136
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It's similar to a defeat Obamacare vote, but differently as they're attaching it to something that is actual leverage now.

    The Government isn't funded after October 1st at this moment. The Republicans are suggesting passing a bill in the House which would fund the government, except for Obamacare, through December. (This short term funding is called a "Continuing Resolution" and has historically been used often to give additional time to get an actual Fiscal year "budget" passed for the whole year).

    So basically putting an option before the Senate...take a bill that keeps the government running, but defunds Obamacare or shut the government down entirely.

    Whether it would bite the Republicans in the ass or not is hard to say as it'll rely completley on how each side spins their argument after the fact (were it to happen).

    Republicans would suggest that they took initiative to pass a bill that would fund the government, and were seeking to stop a highly unpopular law.

    Democrats would suggest the Republicans held the government hostage to kill Obamacare, and that their attempts to keep the Government open wasn't in good faith.

    People on either side will think their sides view is generally correct and the other sides view is full of crap. People in the middle will likely be swayed by who puts forth their argument better.



    Because, historically, once you actually have people participating in a social welfare program it is ridiculously difficult to take it away. Despite ACA passing a while back, it's not really been implimented in such a way that people are largely and widely being covered under it's provisions. That starts on October 1st currently. So that's kind of the "deadline" to be able to reasonably stop it prior to the point where it becomes an actual social welfare program that you'd then be "taking away" from people.



    Aaaaaaaand to my earlier point. Thanks for highlighting how liberals will try to paint it, and stating your view and opinion of it as if it's fact. It's amazing how that just flows off partisans tongues when speaking of things.



    So your question isn't an honest one in the least, and this entire post just devolved into stereotypical hyper partisan drivel. Gotcha.

    No, the general mindset of Republicans is that the cost of it will be overwhelming and ultimately a negative on our economy and our budget but that it will follow the standard path of most social welfare programs that, regardless of their level of success, tend to be very difficult to remove. In terms of political campaigning as well, once it actually goes into affect and people get insurance under the program it makes it FAR more difficult to campaign against as well because it becomes a point that the other side can claim you're trying to take peoples insurance away.

    Now, whether or not it actually DOES cause the cost of government to rise as much as Republicans fear...that's to be seen. And surely, if the cost DOESN'T go up, they would have an even HARDER time to remove it after the fact. But the baseline of their fear is a historically understood fact amongst the Political Science community in terms of social welfare programs and their status as some of the hardest programs to remove once people are actually involved in it. Based largely on the fact that basic human nature is more reticent to give up something they HAVE or believe they have, as opposed to something they don't.
    That's a pretty good explanation for the Republican argument. I still think it's mostly motivated by spite, though. I mean, this isn't a socialist law. If anything, it benefits private business (insurance companies), who will get more customers. And believe it or not, there are people that get a job just for the health insurance. People like artists take part time jobs that provide health benefits just to get affordable health care. If you can get the same health care on your own, such people might not seek work, opening up positions for people that have been struggling to find it.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out, and how much Republican states will try to blunt its success (that's not me saying that, that's Republican governors and state governments). One thing nobody knows is the future, so nobody is smart enough to know if it fails or succeeds.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  7. #137
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by erod View Post
    what it accomplishes is it takes a massively flawed and growingly unpopular bill and puts it front and center again.

    Then, the dems have to re-establish their support of its known flaws, then force obama to veto it and support a bill he continues to delay implementation because of these known flaws.
    known
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  8. #138
    Advisor aberrant85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    10-04-15 @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    594

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    To minimize damage. To take a nautical metaphor, our ship of state has a course that will run aground on a reef. Are you saying that we should just let it do so for the temporary benefit of nailing the Democrats with the blame? Would not a mark of a statesman be to prevent this?

    Furthermore, this Obama Care is a threat to Liberty. I would not risk allowing it to go any further than I would have to and I do not think that the Republicans should do so either.

    Obama Care is going to make health care more expensive, more scarce and rationed, and an decreasingly lower quality of care as long as it exists.
    Relax. First, as you are a Libertarian, I know enough not to argue about liberty.

    Second, I know it's typical liberal bleeding-heart stuff, but if health care gets a little more expensive and covers a little more people, I think that's the morally superior option. I don't see how it will be more "scarce" if more people receive it. And Americans receive worse health care for more money than other parts of the world already, so that's not an argument to go back to the status quo.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

  9. #139
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,613

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    According to the NBC evening news, which I'm watching while perusing this forum, the stock market just took a dump because of fears of a government shut down.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #140
    Assassin
    Verax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    9,552

    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    They are doing what their constituents asked them to do when they were elected. Is that a bad thing?
    Shut down the government because they didn't get their way? That's not a bad thing?

    I know in a forum its easy to say "yeah man lets shut the whole thing down!!! wooohooo!!!". In the real world these things have consequences and can badly hurt people who don't deserve it. As I alluded to earlier the GOP isn't going to change anything so again, what is the use in doing this?

Page 14 of 47 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •