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Thread: House Bill Defunds Health Care

  1. #101
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No its not. We pay taxes to fund the constitutional powers of the federal govt. Youre welcome to pass an amendment if you want to add health care to that.
    i can think of 2 particular clause's that cover health insurance

    the commerce clause, and the necessary and proper clause.

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    trust me young lady if this thing isn't stopped we will all have to pay through the nose!
    Well the thing is, is that this is actually done through taxing. It is not technically illegal to not have health insurance, you just have to pay a penalty in your taxes. You cannot be prosecuted or anything for not purchasing insurance from what I understand, if this bill is anything like what we have here in MA.

    It's very complicated situation, and no one really knows how it's going to take yet. Apparently, your insurance coverage provided by your employer might depend on what type of business you are into.

    The Massachusetts health care experiment - Jun. 3, 2013

    Linda Baker, owner of a Fall River signmaking business, initially went the same route with her two employees. But costs finally outweighed any hiring edge. As monthly premiums climbed $50 to $100 per worker annually, she changed plans three times in four years. "I wanted to give my employees coverage and have them stay," she says, "but it was drowning my company."

    During a brief window when Baker had no employees on the plan, she dropped it. New hires will be on their own.
    What's in store for you: Don't count on this much buy-in. The industries that dominate in Massachusetts -- education, financial services, and technology -- need skilled workers who expect insurance, says Josh Archambault, director of health care policy at the Pioneer Institute.
    Under Obamacare, your boss won't have to offer you insurance if the company employs fewer than 50; bigger firms can pay a penalty that starts at $2,000 a worker in lieu of giving you coverage. Will they? Early signs point to a wait-and-see approach: In a recent Mercer survey, only 6% of large firms said they were likely to have workers buy their own policies come 2014.

    If you work for a company with a big low-wage or part-time workforce that's now uninsured -- think retail and hotels -- you're in for more uncertainty. A firm facing penalties that are below the plan costs or a workforce that's largely better off in cheaper, government-subsidized insurance might simply skip a plan, says Archambault.

  3. #103
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i can think of 2 particular clause's that cover health insurance

    the commerce clause, and the necessary and proper clause.
    Neither of these have anything to do with health care. Are you aware of how we came to an employer based insurance model?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    just for the record, i don't smoke, and i will never smoke.

    and what about the people who cannot qualify for the existing government programs but cannnot afford the high costs of private insurance.
    then you change the government eligibility requirements. a lot of the people who cannot afford insurance could afford insurance if they did not have to have a house in the burbs with a benz in the driveway,

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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i can think of 2 particular clause's that cover health insurance

    the commerce clause, and the necessary and proper clause.
    can you explain further, then just stating the clause, what in the clause gives government the power.

  6. #106
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    misspelling aside, this the point i am trying to make.
    That's ok. I misspell things too on occasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What is a nation, a country, without its people.
    Not... a nation?

    I'm not getting your point. Can I ask why you won't answer my question -- the one I've posed twice now?
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  7. #107
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i can think of 2 particular clause's that cover health insurance

    the commerce clause, and the necessary and proper clause.
    Obamacare has been deemed a tax, not a healthcare law.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Obamacare has been deemed a tax, not a healthcare law.
    when the law was first submitted to the court it was placed under the commerce clause, ....and the argument was, how can government force a citizen to engage in commerce.

    during the court hearings, the government had failed in their case using that clause, the court under Roberts moved the law from under the commerce clause,to the tax clause, which was illegal, judges do not make or change laws, they only adjudicate them.

  9. #109
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i can think of 2 particular clause's that cover health insurance

    the commerce clause, and the necessary and proper clause.
    Actually, neither have anything REMOTELY do do with health insurance.

    The "necessary and proper clause" comes from Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution and deals specifically with those powers enumerated in that section - none of which mention, let alone allude do, let alone allow anyone to infer anything w/r to health care.

    The commerce clause is one of the enumerated powers in Article 1, section 8 and deals with regulating commerce with foreign nations, the states, and the indian tribes. Now, it's a massive stretch to assert that clause gives the federal government the power to run this nation's health care system. Massive. In point of fact, it says no such thing. One could stipulate it gives the government the power to regulate any commerce done across state lines w/r to health care - but to GIVE ALL THE COMMERCE of healthcare into the government's hands is a huge misapplication of that power. Huge.
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    Re: House Bill Defunds Health Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    it truely sickens me when the well being of a human being is worth less then profit.
    Well, businesses don't have feelings. Businesses are concerned with their profit margins of course. Otherwise, they wouldn't have a business. Their role in society is not to give compassion.

    The biggest problem with this bill is that it does not bring down the actual costs of healthcare which are outrageous. Tort reform is the key to bringing down the costs of healthcare. Hospitals, clinics and doctors have to charge exorbitant amounts of money so that they can cover their malpractice insurance.

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