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Thread: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    We not only have to know what mental illness is, but also what it isn't. In general, our mental health system stinks and until it drastically improves debilitating (and in some cases dangerous) conditions will continue to go undiagnosed and untreated.
    The full problem does not fall at the feet of the mental health system. No provider is responsible for the patients they have never seen. The problem I see is that the various systems, legal, military, medical are just not all on the same page. If they don't like to deal with the mentally ill, they just won't. Someone knew this guy had problems. Someone always seems to know. Most of the school shooters were already in 'counseling.' But the laws we have served as an impediment to helping him. And yes, before this happened, HELP is what he needed.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    You're assuming he was in fact suffering from a mental illness at that time, of course.
    Auditory hallucinations can be caused by many things. Not JUST mental illness.

    http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sympto...ons/causes.htm
    Last edited by Maenad; 09-18-13 at 10:04 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    This probably happened for the same reason this happened (from the article):
    Not budget cuts, but rather complete mismanagement of funds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    No I am adding 1+1 and getting 2.
    In other words, you have no idea if one has anything whatsoever to do with the other.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    No I am adding 1+1 and getting 2.
    How dare you? Truth is, at some point rational, responsible people are required to make a judgement. If I was confronted with the security clearance of a person possibly hearing voices, with past fire arm issues, and with a somewhat troubled military service record, I know what I'd decide.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I just don't know what to say about this except WTF????

    " Rhode Island police warned the U.S. Navy last month that Washington Navy Yard gunman Aaron Alexis had reported "hearing voices," raising further questions about how he gained security clearance at the complex where he went on a shooting rampage."

    U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices' | Reuters
    so another example of a state doing its job and the feds dropping the ball this is why need to give power back to the states and take it away from the feds

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    so another example of a state doing its job and the feds dropping the ball this is why need to give power back to the states and take it away from the feds
    The libs will be shooting the messenger but here's the history. Crazier Than Liberals - Ann Coulter - Page 1

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    How dare you? Truth is, at some point rational, responsible people are required to make a judgement. If I was confronted with the security clearance of a person possibly hearing voices, with past fire arm issues, and with a somewhat troubled military service record, I know what I'd decide.
    The cop who discerned the man was hearing voices probably had every right to take him straight to the an emergency room for an evaluation for inpatient treatment and evaluation, but instead chose to let him go and warn the Navy. The Duty to Warn is clear cut. And in most states so is the right to take a psychotic person to the ER for a psych eval, but good luck on that one. I just don't know what the DC law says, and I'm not inclined to look for it.

    In many of these instances someone dropped the ball. Premeditated terrorist acts are excluded, though. There has been no evidence that terrorists have been psychotic. Some have suggested this man may have been exposed to radical islam in another country, but there is no real evidence of this. He sounds like your garden variety psychotic.
    Last edited by Maenad; 09-19-13 at 09:58 AM.
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    The cop who discerned the man was hearing voices probably had every right to take him straight to the an emergency room for an evaluation for inpatient treatment and evaluation, but instead chose to let him go and warn the Navy. The Duty to Warn is clear cut. And in most states so is the right to take a psychotic person to the ER for a psych eval, but good luck on that one. I just don't know what the DC law says, and I'm not inclined to look for it.

    In many of these instances someone dropped the ball. Premeditated terrorist acts are excluded, though. There has been no evidence that terrorists have been psychotic. Some have suggested this man may have been exposed to radical islam in another country, but there is no real evidence of this. He sounds like your garden variety psychotic.
    I hate to use this analogy, but I will. No smoking gun is required to lower or eliminate a security clearance. Reasonable doubt is sufficient. The government knows they blew it. The big question is who blew it, and why. Some of us are not mentally stable, and those of us who aren't shouldn't be working in secure facilities and probably shouldn't have access to fire arms and other lethal stuff. We could debate the reasons for this guy's condition forever and not know anymore at the end of it than we do now. We would have more success taking prudent actions to protect our society from such people and also not inconsequentially protect such people from themselves. A psychiatric degree is not required to make the determination that someone is ****ing nuts, and in the case of a security clearance it's a no brainer.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    The cop who discerned the man was hearing voices probably had every right to take him straight to the an emergency room for an evaluation for inpatient treatment and evaluation, but instead chose to let him go and warn the Navy. The Duty to Warn is clear cut. And in most states so is the right to take a psychotic person to the ER for a psych eval, but good luck on that one. I just don't know what the DC law says, and I'm not inclined to look for it.

    In many of these instances someone dropped the ball. Premeditated terrorist acts are excluded, though. There has been no evidence that terrorists have been psychotic. Some have suggested this man may have been exposed to radical islam in another country, but there is no real evidence of this. He sounds like your garden variety psychotic.
    Laws changed around the time of the publishing of "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" by Ken Kesey wherein the inmates of the institution were portrayed as sympathetic characters ( and should be) but the people who run the institutions were portrayed as power hungry monsters. Other books and movies also had the same effect on the public perception and for the sympathy of the institutionalized., The inmates were quite normal though perhaps a bit more eccentric and were just doing their thing. It was the leaders of these institutions who were always made out to be the villains.

    So according to the trends of the day they let them out, not just in the US but in other countries as well. We now see the consequences of these decisions all too frequently. Mental illness should not be treated casually as it does not do the patient, nor those who may become their victims, or their loved ones, any good whatsoever.

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