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Thread: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    The laws about drawing that line are VERY strict. Hands are tied in many cases.
    If you add hearing voices to his previous shooting incidents I see a very distinct line.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I know that. I was asking for a personal opinion, not a legal one.
    Let me think on that one for a minute or two. I spent years following the letter of the law. In many cases, I had people who I knew in my gut were dangerous, but nowhere does the law state that my gut feeling was enough to take someone's liberty.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If you add hearing voices to his previous shooting incidents I see a very distinct line.
    It depends on what the 'voices' were determined to be. At one point, he thought it was noisy neighbors. No one can say it isn't.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    It depends on what the 'voices' were determined to be. At one point, he thought it was noisy neighbors. No one can say it isn't.
    You need to go back and read maggies link on this.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    OK, Dan, I've thought a couple of minutes about where I think the line should be. Not sure I can answer to your satisfaction. I think most people see this as a failure of the justice system, or the legal system, or the military. But from my perspective, I see it as a failure of the medical community because everyone goes to the doctor. Medicine is so specialized and the primary care provider doesn't treat much but colds these days. Everything else is a referral. I worked with an MD who was overtly hostile to having to see a patient who might have a psych problem. He often said indignantly, "I didn't go to medical school to treat mental illness." Other primary care providers were not that overtly hostile, but none of them could assess a patient for a mental problem. I would get these 'emergencies' that were nothing and they would give me referrals into the future that were the actual emergencies. Bottom line is that medical providers are not qualified to decide who is mentally ill and who is not unless they specialize. BUT everyone goes to the doctor at some time or another, and that would, IMO, be the best place to spot if a problem is developing.

    And yes, psych problems develop. A person who legally owns a large collection of guns may fall and hit his head becoming psychotic, or suffer some horrible loss, or have a stroke, or a spate of other situations that would change his mental status. You just can't look at a person at any static point in time and say, 'he is OK' or 'he is not OK' forever and always. But until enough people know how to spot and intervene with the people who have problems, these situations will continue to occur.
    Last edited by Maenad; 09-18-13 at 09:56 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    A criminal background check does not turn up psychiatric information because psychiatric charts are privileged.
    Nope, but it would've turned up his criminal record. As to whether or not that would've been an impediment, I have no idea.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    And yes, psych problems develop. A person who legally owns a large collection of guns may fall and hit his head becoming psychotic, or suffer some horrible loss, or a spate of other situations that would change his mental status. You just can't look at a person at any static point in time and say, 'he is OK' or 'he is not OK.' But until enough people know how to spot and intervene with the people who have problems, these situations will continue to occur.
    We not only have to know what mental illness is, but also what it isn't. In general, our mental health system stinks and until it drastically improves debilitating (and in some cases dangerous) conditions will continue to go undiagnosed and untreated.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Nope, but it would've turned up his criminal record. As to whether or not that would've been an impediment, I have no idea.
    I'm not sure either. But one thing I know, all the many disciplines that deal with the mentally ill are NOT on the same page.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If you add hearing voices to his previous shooting incidents I see a very distinct line.
    You're assuming he was in fact suffering from a mental illness at that time, of course.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    You're assuming he was in fact suffering from a mental illness at that time, of course.
    No I am adding 1+1 and getting 2.

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