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Thread: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Well in this day and age felons are on data bases, it doesn't require teams of agents visiting your high school classmates. So why 52 felons slipped by seems difficult to put on budget cuts.
    Criminal background checks cost money, so I would assume that if you cut back the amount of money there is available for background checks, you do fewer of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Now budget cuts reducing the investigative branch that handles the civilian LEA contacts would factor in. Though hindsight is 20/20 and I wonder just how many contacts the Navy Investigators received during that 6 week period.
    Honestly, it sounds like six of one and a half dozen of the other -- whether you're paying someone else to run a background check or you've got people on the payroll to run their own investigation, it still requires a budget, yes?
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    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Criminal background checks cost money, so I would assume that if you cut back the amount of money there is available for background checks, you do fewer of them. Honestly, it sounds like six of one and a half dozen of the other -- whether you're paying someone else to run a background check or you've got people on the payroll to run their own investigation, it still requires a budget, yes?
    It just sounds highly speculative to say budget cuts when the FFLs across our grand and Glorious Republic can call for back round checks. it is batch running a set of names and SS#'s through a computer- not sending agents out into the field when it comes to checking for felonies. Course these felons could have 'slipped through' from simple clerical error, mis entered SS#s. The total number of felons vs how many processed????

    as far as checking out all LEA contacts this could be a long term problem far predating the budgets cuts and the spectacular failures are thankfully few and far between. Like many other systems- medical comes quickest to mind, the Investigators triage the caseload coming in. Violent crime reports go to the front of the line, then drinking and drugs, financial impropriety, maybe a few far away contacts of a more 'kooky' nature. So to the area the suspect works in- while secret clearance sounds 'important' it isn't much of a to-do. Those in highly sensitive areas get top priority.

    It can just be a very simple case of a long term problem finally yielded a tragic result.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    It just sounds highly speculative to say budget cuts when the FFLs across our grand and Glorious Republic can call for back round checks. it is batch running a set of names and SS#'s through a computer- not sending agents out into the field when it comes to checking for felonies. Course these felons could have 'slipped through' from simple clerical error, mis entered SS#s. The total number of felons vs how many processed????
    The Navy pointed to budget cuts. Since I don't know enough the process and can only take an educated guess, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to fill in the blanks so that their explanation made sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    as far as checking out all LEA contacts this could be a long term problem far predating the budgets cuts and the spectacular failures are thankfully few and far between. Like many other systems- medical comes quickest to mind, the Investigators triage the caseload coming in. Violent crime reports go to the front of the line, then drinking and drugs, financial impropriety, maybe a few far away contacts of a more 'kooky' nature. So to the area the suspect works in- while secret clearance sounds 'important' it isn't much of a to-do. Those in highly sensitive areas get top priority.

    It can just be a very simple case of a long term problem finally yielded a tragic result.
    That makes plenty of sense.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #44
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I just don't know what to say about this except WTF????

    " Rhode Island police warned the U.S. Navy last month that Washington Navy Yard gunman Aaron Alexis had reported "hearing voices," raising further questions about how he gained security clearance at the complex where he went on a shooting rampage."

    U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices' | Reuters
    Just 'hearing voices' is not enough to get a person a civil commitment. There has to be imminent danger to self or others. The voices have to be telling the person to harm himself or others before he can be hospitalized against his will if he refuses voluntary treatment. There are many people out there who hear voices continually, some even hear voices telling them to harm someone, but they have gained some understanding that the voices are auditory hallucinations, and they do not act on what they are told. You can be as psychotic and as delusional as you want to be, but no one can take away your liberty unless you pose an imminent danger to self or others.

    Determining WHEN someone is a danger to self or others is something else altogether.
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Just 'hearing voices' is not enough to get a person a civil commitment. There has to be imminent danger to self or others. The voices have to be telling the person to harm himself or others before he can be hospitalized against his will if he refuses voluntary treatment. There are many people out there who hear voices continually, some even hear voices telling them to harm someone, but they have gained some understanding that the voices are auditory hallucinations, and they do not act on what they are told. You can be as psychotic and as delusional as you want to be, but no one can take away your liberty unless you pose an imminent danger to self or others.
    Sorry but I don't think a guy that is hearing voices should have top secret security clearance.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Sorry but I don't think a guy that is hearing voices should have top secret security clearance.
    Where exactly do you draw the line?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Sorry but I don't think a guy that is hearing voices should have top secret security clearance.
    You might be surprised at some of the people who do, some are National Guard, some are Reservists, and some active duty. The psychiatric provider does not decide who is fit for duty or who is fit for security clearance. The Department of Defense decides that.
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Where exactly do you draw the line?
    The laws about drawing that line are VERY strict. Hands are tied in many cases.
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    The laws about drawing that line are VERY strict. Hands are tied in many cases.
    I know that. I was asking for a personal opinion, not a legal one.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #50
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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Criminal background checks cost money, so I would assume that if you cut back the amount of money there is available for background checks, you do fewer of them.



    Honestly, it sounds like six of one and a half dozen of the other -- whether you're paying someone else to run a background check or you've got people on the payroll to run their own investigation, it still requires a budget, yes?
    A criminal background check does not turn up psychiatric information because psychiatric charts are privileged.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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