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Thread: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The guy had a history of irrational behavior and shooting incidents so he never should have gotten security clearance anyway or if he did he should have been on a list that made any new info on him set off alarms. Something is very broken in our security system.
    Which leads us back to this:

    A Defense Department Inspector General's report published on Tuesday revealed security lapses that allowed 52 convicted felons to gain access to Navy facilities because budget cuts had undermined vetting.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I think you address one issue at a time. The fact that this guy retained his security clearance with the info received from the police is the issue here. If he had been stopped from this crime and went on to a shopping center instead we could try to figure out how that happened but at least a military base with a high level of security would not have been breeched. I honestly can't believe this slipped through the cracks here and heads need to roll. If this guy can do what he did imagine what a terrorist could do. This base is the heart of the navy and this lapse of security is astonishing and an invitation to terrorist.
    There appears to be similarities here between this case and that of Nidal Hasan. Everyone saw the possible dangers but underestimated them and hoped someone else might do something about it. Who really has the authority to haul this guy in for saying crazy things? In another way it is like the Kitty Genovese case also where people are just afraid to act first.

    We are all wiser after the fact and no doubt those who could have done something but didn't will be haunted by their inaction for the rest of their lives. Maybe we will learn from this, but probably not.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Which leads us back to this:A Defense Department Inspector General's report published on Tuesday revealed security lapses that allowed 52 convicted felons to gain access to Navy facilities because budget cuts had undermined vetting.
    How could there have been such drastic budget cuts that they couldn't vet an employee in such a sensitive area? Certainly they might have looked at cutting in other areas first. This appears to be a rather poor excuse.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I think you address one issue at a time. The fact that this guy retained his security clearance with the info received from the police is the issue here. If he had been stopped from this crime and went on to a shopping center instead we could try to figure out how that happened but at least a military base with a high level of security would not have been breeched. I honestly can't believe this slipped through the cracks here and heads need to roll. If this guy can do what he did imagine what a terrorist could do. This base is the heart of the navy and this lapse of security is astonishing and an invitation to terrorist.
    Years ago when you were vetted for secret clearance or above, it was conducted by the FBI. There were background checks visits to family, friends and neighbors by the FBI. After I was discharged I ran into a friend of my parents who asked me how I was doing, yada yada yada. They mentioned that the FBI visited them after I had enlisted and asked them questions about me.

    On one occasion I know for a fact that a guy lost his clearance and had to retrain. He was Hawaiian, but his father had been born in Japan. That fact when discovered blew this guy's clearance.

    These days when every damn thing is classified more people need clearance. I doubt the FBI does the vetting they used to do.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How could there have been such drastic budget cuts that they couldn't vet an employee in such a sensitive area? Certainly they might have looked at cutting in other areas first. This appears to be a rather poor excuse.
    Well, if background checks cost money and you don't have the money to pay, you're not doing the background checks. It doesn't seem all that complicated to me. Maybe a better question would be who decides what the budget for background checks is -- the military or Congress.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Well, if background checks cost money and you don't have the money to pay, you're not doing the background checks. It doesn't seem all that complicated to me. Maybe a better question would be who decides what the budget for background checks is -- the military or Congress.
    How expensive is a background check?

    It seems that in the case of national security it may have taken priority over cowboy poetry contests in Nevada or some questionable foreign aid programs. Is there no room for cuts in the trillions of dollars spent annually? http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...5-85c86d7ed4a5

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Is anyone actually surprised that all of these mass shootings are being committed by essentially the same person?

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How could there have been such drastic budget cuts that they couldn't vet an employee in such a sensitive area? Certainly they might have looked at cutting in other areas first. This appears to be a rather poor excuse.
    I don't buy the budget cut argument. The DOD allocates the money to the services and they determine how they're going to spend it. We all know there a lot of weapons systems and other things that each branch of the service continues to buy and maintain that are no longer necessary. I think the money is there. I think much of the problem is allocation.

    As I mentioned in the post above, so much is classified unnecessarily these days. As long as Washington continues to advocate the war on terror and the war on drugs we're going to continue to have an issue with this. National paranoia is the major problem. NSA and US intelligence agencies are larger than they have ever been and they are insatiable. They collect information in a greater degree than we have ever seen and more than we know. Now we have Homeland Security. TSA is in every airport, every port, in the United States so they can play with your balls and look at your wife naked through body scanners. The greater the militarization of America the greater national paranoia and the greater the perceived need to classify everything. Over 90 Federal agencies have armed police units including the Library of Congress! Every little piss ant town America has a police department with SWAT teams, and God knows, all kinds of military armament equipment. These police departments all want the secret information from the feds. They want to be clued in to every possible piece of secret information that they can get from any federal agency. Hell, Texas even has armed police for the state agency that licenses dentists. Texas dental cops. LOL!

    In the militarized state that is the United States of America today everybody wants to have everything classified and everybody wants to have access to the classification that everybody else has. To even hope to access that information, employees have to be vetted at some level so that any given agency can justify their ability to be secure and their need to know. it is insane. There is no way the FBI or other vetting entities can keep up with it all.

    All this insanity and more represent budget increases over the last decade.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How expensive is a background check?
    This isn't about how expensive a background check is, because the one check you do will almost never be the one you most needed -- Murphy's Law and all. This is about how expensive the total number of background checks required is, and how much security suffers in general when you cut the budget for it in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems that in the case of national security it may have taken priority over cowboy poetry contests in Nevada or some questionable foreign aid programs. Is there no room for cuts in the trillions of dollars spent annually? http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...5-85c86d7ed4a5
    Just like all kinds of stupid bull**** has taken precedence over sensible budget concerns, or the stupid bull**** that takes precedence over delivering on our promises to our wounded warriors. What else is new?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    It seems this tragedy could and should have been averted. There should be an investigation of who exactly received this info from the police and what they did with it. Unfortunately this will be another Benghazi, nobody will be held responsible.
    Nobody will be held responsible? I really doubt that.

    As always, lawful gun owners will be held responsible.

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