Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 79

Thread: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

  1. #11
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, I don't think it's sensationalizing mental illness. I think it's shining a very bright light on security clearances and the way people are vetted. If we refuse to learn a damned thing from these instances, they will happen over and over again. You find a loophole? A shortcoming? You fix it. Sure works in MY life.
    It sensationalizes mental illness all the freaking time. Why do you think New York has the SAFE act, and why do you think similar laws are popping up in all the wrong committees around the nation? People are afraid of mental illness, because they're constantly told over and over and over that mental illness = homicidal maniac.

    The media can't possibly be shining a very bright light on any damn thing because we don't know anything useful yet. When we do, then that'll be a different story. Until then, we're being fed fragments and conjecture and nothing more.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #12
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    The thing is, even if he didn't have access don't you think he'd just go somewhere else and do it? I am not saying this is excusable, I just think if it wasn't there it could have been somewhere else.
    We don't know whether that's true or not. And I think it's a mistaken assumption to make. To say, in essence, "There's nothing we can do to prevent this," is dangerous.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  3. #13
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It sensationalizes mental illness all the freaking time. Why do you think New York has the SAFE act, and why do you think similar laws are popping up in all the wrong committees around the nation? People are afraid of mental illness, because they're constantly told over and over and over that mental illness = homicidal maniac.

    The media can't possibly be shining a very bright light on any damn thing because we don't know anything useful yet. When we do, then that'll be a different story. Until then, we're being fed fragments and conjecture and nothing more.
    I was operating under the premise that a police officer had reported to the ship yard's security that this man was acting irrational . . . hearing voices . . . thought people were following him. If that's not true, then, of COURSE, you're right. That's a different kettle of fish -- in fact, without that? It's no kettle of fish at all.

    I don't think people figure mental illness = homicidal maniac at all. But I do think that someone hearing voices who thinks he's being followed shouldn't be allowed on a secured military installation. *shrug*
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  4. #14
    dangerously addictive
    americanwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    17,435

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    We don't know whether that's true or not. And I think it's a mistaken assumption to make. To say, in essence, "There's nothing we can do to prevent this," is dangerous.

    There is much that can be done but I don't think taking away someone access is a way to prevent it. He needed help and was ignored. Do you really think if he tried to get in and was denied would say oh well and go home with his guns?
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it.
    _____________________________________________

  5. #15
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I was operating under the premise that a police officer had reported to the ship yard's security that this man was acting irrational . . . hearing voices . . . thought people were following him. If that's not true, then, of COURSE, you're right. That's a different kettle of fish -- in fact, without that? It's no kettle of fish at all.
    My point is that we know so little useful information about this guy, about his condition, about what care he was or was not receiving, about who was notified when in regards to what -- but throw the specter of mental illness out there, and suddenly that's the story. Like I said, sensationalism. I'm not saying that the dude wasn't ill or that his illness wasn't the cause of his actions, I'm pointing to how even though we know next to no relevant facts, the mention of mental illness has the media flipping out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't think people figure mental illness = homicidal maniac at all. But I do think that someone hearing voices who thinks he's being followed shouldn't be allowed on a secured military installation. *shrug*
    Look at the vast majority of representations of mental illness in our entertainment, look at the SAFE act. People generally see mental illness as yet another boogeyman -- because they're told over and over that it is.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
    Last Seen
    09-14-14 @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    14,700

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    There is much that can be done but I don't think taking away someone access is a way to prevent it. He needed help and was ignored. Do you really think if he tried to get in and was denied would say oh well and go home with his guns?
    I think you address one issue at a time. The fact that this guy retained his security clearance with the info received from the police is the issue here. If he had been stopped from this crime and went on to a shopping center instead we could try to figure out how that happened but at least a military base with a high level of security would not have been breeched. I honestly can't believe this slipped through the cracks here and heads need to roll. If this guy can do what he did imagine what a terrorist could do. This base is the heart of the navy and this lapse of security is astonishing and an invitation to terrorist.

  7. #17
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I think you address one issue at a time. The fact that this guy retained his security clearance with the info received from the police is the issue here. If he had been stopped from this crime and went on to a shopping center instead we could try to figure out how that happened but at least a military base with a high level of security would not have been breeched. I honestly can't believe this slipped through the cracks here and heads need to roll. If this guy can do what he did imagine what a terrorist could do. This base is the heart of the navy and this lapse of security is astonishing and an invitation to terrorist.
    Well, seeing as how we're speculating with virtually no information, I'll throw out Occam's Razor: He already had clearance, then the police officer reported him, the report was either not very convincing or was made to a low-level guy or both, it was working its way up the chain and through the proper channels, the shooter beat the system to the punch.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If a copper thinks a situation is serious enough to report it to Naval security, the person involved should be put on administrative leave until an investigation re-vets him. Cops don't do this lightly, in my opinion. If he's willing to put it in writing? He means it.
    Unless there is fear of 'racial profiling', which arresting a man only for suspicious behavior might be the case. Apparently there were many people who said he was just a nice friendly guy.

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
    Last Seen
    09-14-14 @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    14,700

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Well, seeing as how we're speculating with virtually no information, I'll throw out Occam's Razor: He already had clearance, then the police officer reported him, the report was either not very convincing or was made to a low-level guy or both, it was working its way up the chain and through the proper channels, the shooter beat the system to the punch.
    The guy had a history of irrational behavior and shooting incidents so he never should have gotten security clearance anyway or if he did he should have been on a list that made any new info on him set off alarms. Something is very broken in our security system.

  10. #20
    dangerously addictive
    americanwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    17,435

    Re: U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I think you address one issue at a time. The fact that this guy retained his security clearance with the info received from the police is the issue here. If he had been stopped from this crime and went on to a shopping center instead we could try to figure out how that happened but at least a military base with a high level of security would not have been breeched. I honestly can't believe this slipped through the cracks here and heads need to roll. If this guy can do what he did imagine what a terrorist could do. This base is the heart of the navy and this lapse of security is astonishing and an invitation to terrorist.
    Good points.
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it.
    _____________________________________________

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •