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Syria: nearly half rebel fighters are jihadists or hardline Islamists

ecofarm said:
Look at all the evidence. It's obvious that Assad gassed Damascus.

There is no way that rebels could infiltrate ~10 locations within Assad controlled territory in Damascus, prepare and launch rockets, without detection or resistance.
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No way huh? Just like there was "no way" terrorists could have orchestrated an attack like 911 on American soil. I don't rule out anything. It is naive to make any kind of assumptions in this situation. We don't know who is who. Just because John Kerry tells you stuff, doesn't make it true.
 
Montecresto said:
AP has reported that they in fact DO HAVE.
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AP has reported they have rockets. No one has reported they have those types of rockets. There is no evidence to suggest they do.

Once again, selective demands for evidence are exposed.
 
ecofarm said:
Look at all the evidence. It's obvious that Assad gassed Damascus.

There is no way that rebels could infiltrate ~10 locations within Assad controlled territory in Damascus, prepare and launch rockets, without detection or resistance.
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Typical of you. Called out on twisting the facts and so deflect.
 
ChrisL said:
No way huh? Just like there was "no way" terrorists could have orchestrated an attack like 911 on American soil.
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I'd say it's obvious that terrorists orchestrated 911, there is plenty of evidence and no reason to believe otherwise. I'd say it was easy for them, not difficult at all.
 
ecofarm said:
AP has reported they have rockets. No one has reported they have those types of rockets. There is no evidence to suggest they do.

Once again, selective demands for evidence are exposed.
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Yes Eco, you must have memory issues too. Citations for that and the subsequent discussion took place a couple weeks ago.
 
Montecresto said:
You misquote international inspectors, AGAIN. You said, "the rebels DO NOT have" (emphasis mine). They said, "rebels are NOT KNOWN to have" huge difference. AP has reported that they in fact DO HAVE.
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Yeah that seems to happen. Which like I said before with the Terminology over Moderates. Any other time they use the term. They just say moderates. They do not say moderates with an Islamist Character. Not even with regards to Moderates in any other ME countries.
 
Montecresto said:
Yes Eco, you must have memory issues too. Citations for that and the subsequent discussion took place a couple weeks ago.
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Will you fail to produce citations and claim you've already proven something?

There is no evidence that rebels have those specific types of rockets, according to international observers, as reported today.
 
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ecofarm said:
I'd say it's obvious that terrorists orchestrated 911, there is plenty of evidence and no reason to believe otherwise. I'd say it was easy for them, not difficult at all.
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Gotta get back to work now. TTYL. :2wave:
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Yes, a type of rocket. A surface to surface is a type of rocket.
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No, they mean the specific model of the rocket. Obviously, rebels do have rockets - this is common knowledge.

How could they claim that international observers say rebels do not have this type of rocket when everyone knows the rebels have surface-to-surface rockets, unless they are referring to a specific model?
 
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Montecresto said:
Yes Eco, you must have memory issues too. Citations for that and the subsequent discussion took place a couple weeks ago.
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Heya Monte :2wave: Didn't Al Nusra Promise to rain 1000 rockets down on the Alawites for the Chem Attack?
 
ecofarm said:
No, they mean the specific model of the rocket. Obviously, rebels do have rockets - this is common knowledge.

How could they claim that international observers say rebels do not have this type of rocket when everyone knows the rebels have surface-to-surface rockets, unless they are referring to a specific model?
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Ok. Check it.

The UN report stated the following: "Information about the delivery systems used was essential for the investigation. Indeed, several surface to surface rockets capable of delivering significant chemical payloads were identified and recorded at the investigated sites."

In previous posts I have provided evidence that the rebels did indeed have surface to surface rockets before August 21, 2013.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Ok. Check it.

The UN report stated the following: "Information about the delivery systems used was essential for the investigation. Indeed, several surface to surface rockets capable of delivering significant chemical payloads were identified and recorded at the investigated sites."

In previous posts I have provided evidence that the rebels did indeed have surface to surface rockets before August 21, 2013.
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To top it off Mr I.....on Aug 25th of 2013. the Saud and Qataris sent in the largest cache of weapons know to be given to the Rebels. Of course at the time all that was reported was Light weapons. Yet they have had anti tank and Anti Air. Which is why the ManPads that Gadhafi had warehoused was taken and given to the Rebels/Terrorists.

Syrian rebels claim receipt of major weapons shipment

Militia leaders say hundreds of tonnes of ammunition and some light weapons allowed across Turkish border in past three days

Leaders of militias supported by backers in Saudi Arabia and Qatar say several hundred tonnes of ammunition and a limited supply of light weapons were allowed across the Turkish border in the past three days, in what they said was the first large-scale re-supply since earlier this year.

The weapons are believed to have been sent by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and were warehoused in Turkey for many months. Senior rebel commanders contacted by the Guardian say they did not include anti-aircraft missiles, but several dozen anti-tank rockets were among them.

"For months we have not been able to advance along a front," said a commander of the Salafist militia, Ahrar al-Sham, who did not want to be named. "This will allow us to fight more like an army."

Saudi Arabia, which opposes the Assad regime, had this year been using the Jordanian border to smuggle weapons into Syria, after complaining that the US was allowing few supplies to cross from Turkey.....snip~

Syrian rebels claim receipt of major weapons shipment | World news | The Guardian
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Ok. Check it.

The UN report stated the following: "Information about the delivery systems used was essential for the investigation. Indeed, several surface to surface rockets capable of delivering significant chemical payloads were identified and recorded at the investigated sites."

In previous posts I have provided evidence that the rebels did indeed have surface to surface rockets before August 21, 2013.
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We KNOW that rebels have surface to surface rockets. They have some types that could deliver chems.

International observers say that rebels do not have the two types of rockets used in the Damascus chem attack.


The team did identify two types or [of, that's a typo] rockets it said were used to deliver the gas and their trajectories, and international observers have said those weapons are not known to be in the hands of rebels battling the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
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'War crime': U.N. finds sarin used in Syria chemical weapons attack - CNN.com


That's today's news, based on the UN report.
 
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ecofarm said:
We KNOW that rebels have surface to surface rockets. They have some types that could deliver chems.

International observers say that rebels do not have the two types of rockets used in the Damascus chem attack.

'War crime': U.N. finds sarin used in Syria chemical weapons attack - CNN.com

That's today's news.
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No we don't know that don't have the types of rockets, it's just that they "not known to be in the hands of rebels." Just because you don't know something doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

In addition to this, if the types of rockets are so important, then why hasn't the ID of those been released? They haven't. All it says in the UN report is that surface-to-surface rockets were used. And we know that both sides have surface to surface rockets. We know that they've been getting arms from nations like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. You yourself even admitted that the rebels have SSMs that could deliver chemical weapons.

EDIT: The US and its allies are citing this UN report as evidence that Assad carried out the chemical weapons, when in actuality the UN report doesn't actually say who did the attack, rather it only confirms that it was carried out.
 
ukangel said:
Opposition forces battling Bashar al-Assad's regime in Syria now number around 100,000 fighters, but after more than two years of fighting they are fragmented into as many as 1,000 bands.


The new study by IHS Jane's, a defence consultancy, estimates there are around 10,000 jihadists - who would include foreign fighters - fighting for powerful factions linked to al-Qaeda..

Another 30,000 to 35,000 are hardline Islamists who share much of the outlook of the jihadists, but are focused purely on the Syrian war rather than a wider international struggle.

There are also at least a further 30,000 moderates belonging to groups that have an Islamic character, meaning only a small minority of the rebels are linked to secular or purely nationalist groups.

The stark assessment, to be published later this week, accords with the view of Western diplomats estimate that less than one third of the opposition forces are "palatable" to Britain, while American envoys put the figure even lower.


Syria: nearly half rebel fighters are jihadists or hardline Islamists, says IHS Jane's report - Telegraph
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... not according to John Kerry and the Obama Administration... they seem to have a different definition.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
No we don't know that don't have the types of rockets, it's just that they "not known to be in the hands of rebels." Just because you don't know something doesn't mean that it isn't possible.
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So, you don't need ANY evidence to believe rebels have those two specific types of rockets. You are willing to ignore the international observers who claim they do not.

It seems you really don't care about evidence and are just interested in "possibilities". Well, it's possible that aliens did it. Why not claim that?


In addition to this, if the types of rockets are so important, then why hasn't the ID of those been released? They haven't. All it says in the UN report is that surface-to-surface rockets were used.
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False, the report claims two specific types of rockets, which international observers claim rebels do not have.

And we know that both sides have surface to surface rockets. We know that they've been getting arms from nations like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. You yourself even admitted that the rebels have SSMs that could deliver chemical weapons.
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It's possible that aliens gave the rebels those two types of rockets, but international observers say that rebels do not have those two types of rockets.

EDIT: The US and its allies are citing this UN report as evidence that Assad carried out the chemical weapons, when in actuality the UN report doesn't actually say who did the attack, rather it only confirms that it was carried out.
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The UN report specifies the types of rockets used and the trajectories of those rockets.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
No we don't know that don't have the types of rockets, it's just that they "not known to be in the hands of rebels." Just because you don't know something doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

In addition to this, if the types of rockets are so important, then why hasn't the ID of those been released? They haven't. All it says in the UN report is that surface-to-surface rockets were used. And we know that both sides have surface to surface rockets. We know that they've been getting arms from nations like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. You yourself even admitted that the rebels have SSMs that could deliver chemical weapons.

EDIT: The US and its allies are citing this UN report as evidence that Assad carried out the chemical weapons, when in actuality the UN report doesn't actually say who did the attack, rather it only confirms that it was carried out.
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Another source to contradict your inaccuracies:


While the report’s authors did not assign blame for the attack on the outskirts of Damascus, the details it documented included the large size and particular shape of the munitions and the precise direction from which two of them had been fired. Taken together, that information appeared to undercut arguments by President Bashar al-Assad of Syria that rebel forces, who are not known to possess such weapons or the training or ability to use them, had been responsible.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/world/europe/syria-united-nations.html?_r=0


The rockets used are not known to be possessed by the rebels. The rebels do not have the training or ability to use those rockets.

Deal with it.
 
ecofarm said:
So, you don't need ANY evidence to believe rebels have those two specific types of rockets. You are willing to ignore the international observers who claim they do not.
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ecofarm said:
It's possible that aliens gave the rebels those two types of rockets, but international observers say that rebels do not have those two types of rockets.
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ecofarm said:
The UN report specifies the types of rockets used and the trajectories of those rockets.
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All I am saying is that there is evidence that both sides have SSMs. In regards to types of SSMs, they have not been specified.

ecofarm said:
It seems you really don't care about evidence and are just interested in "possibilities". Well, it's possible that aliens did it. Why not claim that?
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I do care about evidence and have presented it.


ecofarm said:
False, the report claims two specific types of rockets, which international observers claim rebels do not have.
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Not true. I stated that the specific types of rockets had not been released. All we know is that they are surface to surface rockets generally. You stated earlier in the thread

ecofarm said:
We are talking about a specific type of rocket, which international observers say the rebels do not have.
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The information about that specific type of rocket has not been released. All we know is about SSMs generally.
 
At the beginning of all this you were arguing that the UN inspectors were instructed not to work to determine who used chemical weapons but to just confirm the use, Eco!
 
Mr. Invisible said:
All I am saying is that there is evidence that both sides have SSMs. In regards to types of SSMs, they have not been specified.
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False.

I stated that the specific types of rockets had not been released. All we know is that they are surface to surface rockets generally.
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False.

The information about that specific type of rocket has not been released. All we know is about SSMs generally.
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False.

While the report’s authors did not assign blame for the attack on the outskirts of Damascus, the details it documented included the large size and particular shape of the munitions and the precise direction from which two of them had been fired. Taken together, that information appeared to undercut arguments by President Bashar al-Assad of Syria that rebel forces, who are not known to possess such weapons or the training or ability to use them, had been responsible.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/world/europe/syria-united-nations.html?_r=0
 
Montecresto said:
At the beginning of all this you were arguing that the UN inspectors were instructed not to work to determine who used chemical weapons but to just confirm the use, Eco!
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They also confirmed the type of rocket, which the rebels do not posses and do not have the training and ability to use.

They also confirmed the trajectories, coming from Assad controlled Damascus.
 
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