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Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

TurtleDude said:
Yeah I was upset that I missed 30 points on the SAT and only got a 1570. I was also upset I only made it to the finals of the Rhodes Scholarship competition and two Olympic team trials rather than getting one or a spot to the cancelled Moscow Olympics or Korea

Oh and I was offered one of those Morehead scholarships at a fairly decent Law School in Chapel Hill
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Its called 'book smart', Ethan.
 
VanceMack said:
:lamo And we have proof those 'Herculean' efforts to ban drugs are worthless.
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Why would you think the drug trade would be similar to a gun trade? Let us look at it on a practical level. In Japan, extacy, amphetamines, marijuana, cocaine and LSD are all widely available. Guns are not.

Both are illegal and heavily regulated. But clearly in economic terms, drugs behave differently on the black market than do guns.

1) profitable amounts of drugs are small and easy to transport.

2) Users use drugs and continue to use drugs on a regular basis. Guaranteeing a ready market for anything you bring in. Guns are not used as regularly, nor do they cease to be when used.

3) the market is naturally smaller for illegal guns than drugs
 
ethanUNC said:
I suppose that there are young earth creationists who have PhDs.
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I am sure there are, but being agnostic I don't buy into that nonsense. One of my favorite things is watching the gun fearers pretending that only the backwards or myth worshippers are pro gun. Actually, gun owners are better educated, on the whole, and make more money, than gun fearers.
 
TurtleDude said:
I am sure there are, but being agnostic I don't buy into that nonsense. One of my favorite things is watching the gun fearers pretending that only the backwards or myth worshippers are pro gun. Actually, gun owners are better educated, on the whole, and make more money, than gun fearers.
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(citation needed)
 
ethanUNC said:
(citation needed)
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well given you haven't provided any support for your claims about England that are relevant I suggest you google it. I know its correct as do those who understand the subject. Make it the subject of your next research paper
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Why would you think the drug trade would be similar to a gun trade? Let us look at it on a practical level. In Japan, extacy, amphetamines, marijuana, cocaine and LSD are all widely available. Guns are not.

Both are illegal and heavily regulated. But clearly in economic terms, drugs behave differently on the black market than do guns.

1) profitable amounts of drugs are small and easy to transport.

2) Users use drugs and continue to use drugs on a regular basis. Guaranteeing a ready market for anything you bring in. Guns are not used as regularly, nor do they cease to be when used.

3) the market is naturally smaller for illegal guns than drugs
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ANY desirable commodity that is banned can and will be procured. Gangs and violent criminals will get guns. The drug ban is evidence of that reality. Its simply stupid beyond words to pretend that violent criminals would NOT find a way to import guns, right in that crate next to the one marked "crack". Japan has very restrictive gun laws and stiff penalties for illegal gun ownership. You know who has no problem procuring illegal firearms in Japan? Their gangs.

But that IS your goal, isnt it...a complete ban on guns.
 
VanceMack said:
ANY desirable commodity that is banned can and will be procured. Gangs and violent criminals will get guns. The drug ban is evidence of that reality. Its simply stupid beyond words to pretend that violent criminals would NOT find a way to import guns, right in that crate next to the one marked "crack". Japan has very restrictive gun laws and stiff penalties for illegal gun ownership. You know who has no problem procuring illegal firearms in Japan? Their gangs.

But that IS your goal, isnt it...a complete ban on guns.
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I agree that it would be difficult to prevent highly organized criminal groups from obtaining guns, but can your average lunatic like James Holmes pick one up?
 
ChrisL said:
You obviously have no good argument left.
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I don't believe he had any to start with. You see, its obvious that his motivations for gun restrictions are based on a desire to harass honest gun owners rather than the facade he spews of crime control. When one's entire argument is based on a dishonest premise, the house of cards quickly collapses
 
TurtleDude said:
that doesn't prove anything

you are trying to argue that increased restrictions on AMERICANS who can legally own guns will decrease crime with guns

You cannot
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You think that America is so different that the trend for every other country in the world doesn't apply? Then the burden of proof is on you to show that.
 
ethanUNC said:
US firearm-related homicide deaths: 11,078
United Kingdom firearm-related homicide deaths: 38
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There are far more auto related deaths than guns, would take your students car as well?
 
ethanUNC said:
I agree that it would be difficult to prevent highly organized criminal groups from obtaining guns, but can your average lunatic like James Holmes pick one up?
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so it is your learned and experienced opinion that someone who picked a theater that was in a gun free area rather than a closer or more populated theater where people could carry, and then snuck in the back door so as to avoid detection after propping that door open, (demonstrating premeditation of a high degree) is going to be prevented from committing Capital murder by a gun law that imposes something short of DEATH for violations?

oh and if you claim banning honest people from owning guns will cause a trickle down deprivation for CRIMINALS you obviously aren't around fellow college students who smoke dope or snort coke

say like this assclown

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TurtleDude said:
yeah there have been a couple others who have made that claim only to have those who know who I am shoot them down.
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from above: "But if you are, that is just sad and goes far in explaining why gun rights are circling the drain here"


You don't support gun rights.
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Indeed I do. I even own guns.


You have accepted the faith based belief that laws that only apply to honest americans will somehow deter criminals without ruining our rights
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No, I acknowledge simple facts "like laws restrict availability" and that "guns are more deadly than knives". That doesn't mean I support the introduction of new and extensive gun control measures.

PS Maybe go read Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism and focus on her remarks about the dangers of an ideology trumping reality
 
Threegoofs said:
Theres only one appropriate response:

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Of course. Since you have nothing intelligent to contribute you revert back to your standard stupidity. You continue to point to an automatic weapons law (not ban) as your 'evidence'...but cant offer any evidence it has any relative bearing whatsoever. There are around 240,000 legally owned fully auto weapons in the US today. Care to guess how many there were prior to the laws changing in 34?
 
ethanUNC said:
I agree that it would be difficult to prevent highly organized criminal groups from obtaining guns, but can your average lunatic like James Holmes pick one up?
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I guess he can. He did, after all.
 
ethanUNC said:
You think that America is so different that the trend for every other country in the world doesn't apply? Then the burden of proof is on you to show that.
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wrong, the burden is on freedom hating control freaks who want to limit our freedom and rights to prove that their schemes will make us safer without unduly burdening the rights of free men. That you and people like you make asinine comparisons to countries that have different cultures, different ethic mixes etc (and its interesting how you avoid countries like Mexico, the RSA and Russia as well as Switzerland) proves you cannot find any evidence that your hoplophobic wet dreams can be justified by what has gone on in the USA-such as Chicago and DC having massive murder and crime rates despite complete handgun bans for YEARS
 
ecofarm said:
While I'm no expert on the subject, I would like to see his evidence.
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For some reason, a few advocates here are against even discussing the topic of guns, and unfortunately fail to see how such positions and attitudes only hurt their long time interests
 
ethanUNC said:
I agree that it would be difficult to prevent highly organized criminal groups from obtaining guns, but can your average lunatic like James Holmes pick one up?
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Why not? There are currently around 300 million LEGAL firearms here. There will ALWAYS be a market for firearms. You really believe they can sell heroin on the streets but wouldnt be able to come up with a handgun for a few hundred bucks?
 
TurtleDude said:
It doesn't exist. I have read the studies. Scotland is now, per capita, a far more violent society than ours
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Actually that is more of a function of how drastically different the definition of violent crime is between the two societies

PolitiFact | Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

Fact-Checking Ben Swann: Is the UK really 5 times more violent than the US? | The Skeptical Libertarian

PS I would probably hold off on calling chain emails "studies". The later suggests something of actual academic merit

<<<What Swann either doesn’t know, or simply doesn’t bother to tell his viewers, is that the definitions for “violent crime” are very different in the US and Britain, and the methodologies of the two statistics he cites are also different. (He probably simply doesn’t realize this: it appears that he lifted his data wholesale from a story in the Daily Mail, without checking it–something you might expect a fact checker to have done.)

First, it should be noted that the figures Swann gives are out of date: in 2010, according to the FBI, the reported rate of violent crime in the US was 403 incidents per 100,000 people–the 466 figure comes from 2007. Second, and more importantly, the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a “violent crime” as one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

The British Home Office, by contrast, has a substantially different definition of violent crime. The British definition includes all “crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all “sexual offenses,” as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and “forcible rapes.”>>>
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
from above: "But if you are, that is just sad and goes far in explaining why gun rights are circling the drain here"




Indeed I do. I even own guns.




No, I acknowledge simple facts "like laws restrict availability" and that "guns are more deadly than knives". That doesn't mean I support the introduction of new and extensive gun control measures.

PS Maybe go read Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism and focus on her remarks about the dangers of an ideology trumping reality
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maybe you should read your own posts and tell us what part of them actually supports gun rights. I find it interesting that this forum is full of people who want to whine about pro gun posters and posts and then pretend they aren't anti gun. And owning guns means nothing. Lots of french knights had crossbows but they would draw and quarter (or worse) any commoner caught with one. Same with the ruling class of Japan when it came to swords. Lots of anti gun democrats have guns. THe aging princess Diane Feinswine had a carry permit in SF but refused to issue any to others when she was mayor. Jay Rockefeller voted for the clinton gun ban and admitted he owned an AR 15
 
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