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Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

Who knows this nut would look just like Obama's son.
As much you as probably look like John Wayne Gacy.


What the hell does this have to do with this tragedy? Pathetic.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1062323411 said:
I'm glad everyone doesn't cower or abscond when faced with a life or death situation. Being a victim can be a choice and that's Ok if that's what you prefer for yourself or your family. However, it's certainly nothing to boast about. However, if concealed carry had been allowed, which I'm pretty sure it wasn't in this situation, the shooter wouldn't have killed nearly as many people as he did today.

That's such a bull**** hypothetical. It's just as likely that the conceal and carry person would've shot someone else by accident. Or that yet another conceal and carry person had theirs out and got mistaken for the shooter.

Here's trained officers in New York shooting at a perp and instead hitting a woman with a walker and another woman was shot in her butt. Trained officers. I could just imagine what would happen in a tense shooter scenario like today and interjecting any joe schmoe who bought a conceal and carry license put in the mix.
 
Big question is how he got a security clearlance.
It is reported that he was kicked out of the Navy.
In 2010 he shot his gun up through the floor of the apt above him whom he had run-ins over her noise.
In 2004 he shot out the tires of a car of two construction workers.

Does anybody see a red flag here?

He had the ID of another employee who had been dismissed but whose ID wasn't turned off in the system yet.
 
That's such a bull**** hypothetical. It's just as likely that the conceal and carry person would've shot someone else by accident. Or that yet another conceal and carry person had theirs out and got mistaken for the shooter.

Here's trained officers in New York shooting at a perp and instead hitting a woman with a walker and another woman was shot in her butt. Trained officers. I could just imagine what would happen in a tense shooter scenario like today and interjecting any joe schmoe who bought a conceal and carry license put in the mix.

Most CCW folks are better trained than cops.

COps carry because they have to - CCW folks carry because they want to.

CCW folks also do not have the advantage of ballistic undergarments, which makes them more dependent upon themselves.
 
Most CCW folks are better trained than cops.

COps carry because they have to - CCW folks carry because they want to.

CCW folks also do not have the advantage of ballistic undergarments, which makes them more dependent upon themselves.

I doubt that's true. Maybe they go to the shooting range more and become better marksmen but with regards to situational training... I seriously doubt that. But even if it were, it doesn't help in the situation where they look like the perp and become the target from all the other CCW's and cops.
 
I doubt that's true. Maybe they go to the shooting range more and become better marksmen but with regards to situational training... I seriously doubt that. But even if it were, it doesn't help in the situation where they look like the perp and become the target from all the other CCW's and cops.

You can seriously doubt truthful information that challenges your view of the world all you want to.

I have been on both sides of this fence, and my comments are dead on.
 
You can seriously doubt truthful information that challenges your view of the world all you want to.

I have been on both sides of this fence, and my comments are dead on.

So it's something that is solely based on your personal experience as opposed to some form of documented research?

If that is the case, while I have met some really dumb cops, there still seems to be a higher bar set in becoming a law enforcement officer in comparison to what is required to acquire a legal firearm in this country. The later is relatively easy, but the former actually requires some level of training, successful navigation of the hiring process, and a significant dedication of time

Edit: NVM I see you were referring to a CCW permit. Which, though it's harder to get than a simply firearm, is still easier than becoming a cop and maintaining the position (in my county I simply need to recs from my neighbors and a background check)
 
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Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69]

You can seriously doubt truthful information that challenges your view of the world all you want to.

I have been on both sides of this fence, and my comments are dead on.

...because you know the training of all CCW carriers in the nation as well as all law enforcement agencies?

I'm just glad people like you are working hard for my freedom to be shot repeatedly while in a public place. It's priceless.
 
So it's something that is solely based on your personal experience as opposed to some form of documented research?

If that is the case, while I have met some really dumb cops, there still seems to be a higher bar set in becoming a cop as opposed what is required to a legal gun in this country

Then I suggest that you understand the requirements for law enforcement, specifically firearms training.

Generally the total hours required are about 700 hours of class time, which covers everything.

That is about 18 weeks of instruction. Many departments require no college degree.

Doubt all you want. Ignore all you want. Continue to be blissfully comfortable. A man has got to know his limitations.
 
...because you know the training of all CCW carriers in the nation as well as all law enforcement agencies?

I'm just glad people like you are working hard for my freedom to be shot repeatedly while in a public place. It's priceless.

Ah, I see that you cannot understand at all.

I do nothing for you. It is not about you at all. You shall reap what you have sown. Look elsewhere for help.
 
I doubt that's true. Maybe they go to the shooting range more and become better marksmen but with regards to situational training... I seriously doubt that. But even if it were, it doesn't help in the situation where they look like the perp and become the target from all the other CCW's and cops.

you are wrong. I will quote the former Cincinnati PD firearms instructor's testimony to Cincinnati City council years ago (BEFORE WE HAVE CCW)

He noted if he went to the police range and chose 10 police officers at random and then drove a couple miles to the public indoor range target word, and chose 10 random shooters, and tested them on gun safety, marksmanship and shoot don't shoot scenarios, the non cops would win EVERY TIME.

having trained hundreds of people, having spent hundreds of hours each year at ranges and training facilities and having defended police departments in these areas, I can tell you SMTA is absolutely correct.
 
So it's something that is solely based on your personal experience as opposed to some form of documented research?

If that is the case, while I have met some really dumb cops, there still seems to be a higher bar set in becoming a law enforcement officer in comparison to what is required to acquire a legal firearm in this country. The later is relatively easy, but the former actually requires some level of training, successful navigation of the hiring process, and a significant dedication of time

Edit: NVM I see you were referring to a CCW permit. Which, though it's harder to get than a simply firearm, is still easier than becoming a cop and maintaining the position (in my county I simply need to recs from my neighbors and a background check)

well if that were true cops would hit bad guys more than no cops and shoot less innocent people. Guess what

they don't

we just had a case of cops shooting two innocents in NY. its far more common with cops
 
Then I suggest that you understand the requirements for law enforcement, specifically firearms training.

Generally the total hours required are about 700 hours of class time, which covers everything.

That is about 18 weeks of instruction. Many departments require no college degree.

Doubt all you want. Ignore all you want. Continue to be blissfully comfortable. A man has got to know his limitations.

Assuming that is all correct, those are still higher requirements than what a ccw requires (at least in my area). Not to mention, you would still be over looking the fact they have to get and maintain a job as a police officer.


***Those all help to eliminate individuals who could still theoretically get a CCW
 
well if that were true cops would hit bad guys more than no cops and shoot less innocent people. Guess what

they don't

Can you give some documentation on this, so I can see the numbers and understand exactly what they are defining?

we just had a case of cops shooting two innocents in NY. its far more common with cops

I also imagine cops are involved in more "protective" shootings. That is why it would help to see the numbers you are talking about
 
There are dead, innocent human beings today.

My least concern is some of your petty squabbles.

Some of you, on both sides of the gun control issue are disgusting human beings and many of you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.
 
you are wrong. I will quote the former Cincinnati PD firearms instructor's testimony to Cincinnati City council years ago (BEFORE WE HAVE CCW)

He noted if he went to the police range and chose 10 police officers at random and then drove a couple miles to the public indoor range target word, and chose 10 random shooters, and tested them on gun safety, marksmanship and shoot don't shoot scenarios, the non cops would win EVERY TIME.

having trained hundreds of people, having spent hundreds of hours each year at ranges and training facilities and having defended police departments in these areas, I can tell you SMTA is absolutely correct.

how good of a sample of people who have a CCW is that? Again, assuming this is accurate, I think it's a bit of a no brainer that people who actively choose to train in shooting would outperform people who were required via professional obligation.

But not all CCW holders even go to the shooting range
 
Assuming that is all correct, those are still higher requirements than what a ccw requires (at least in my area). Not to mention, you would still be over looking the fact they have to get and maintain a job as a police officer.


***Those all help to eliminate individuals who could still theoretically get a CCW


what silly argument are you making Many of us are MORE qualified than cops to carry weapons. I certainly am
 
There are dead, innocent human beings today.

My least concern is some of your petty squabbles.

Some of you, on both sides of the gun control issue are disgusting human beings and many of you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.

It's a message board. people come here to discuss politics. if you are saddened by the event and don't want to discuss politics, this might not be the place to be.
 
how good of a sample of people who have a CCW is that? Again, assuming this is accurate, I think it's a bit of a no brainer that people who actively choose to train in shooting would outperform people who were required via professional obligation.

But not all CCW holders even go to the shooting range

actually most do. The average cop shoots less than 200 rounds a year. Me-that's a light week of training. My 15 year old son has close to 100,000 rounds of experience.
 
There are dead, innocent human beings today.

My least concern is some of your petty squabbles.

Some of you, on both sides of the gun control issue are disgusting human beings and many of you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.

that's silly and arrogant. we cannot change the fact that some asshole who violated more than a dozen laws killed people what we can do is to argue against and rally others to prevent other assholes, like Diane Finetard, from using the deaths of innocents to rape us of our rights and to guarantee that scumbags who want to murder people will have an easier time of doing it
 
what silly argument are you making Many of us are MORE qualified than cops to carry weapons. I certainly am

It's not a silly argument. It's rather clear the bar is set higher in becoming a cop than it is acquiring a CCW permit (at least where I live). If you disagree feel free to explain why as opposed to having a silly tantrum. It would also make for more effective advocacy, if that is your interest here
 
what silly argument are you making Many of us are MORE qualified than cops to carry weapons. I certainly am

Being better at shooting does not make you more qualified to carry a weapon.
 
Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69]

It's not a silly argument. It's rather clear the bar is set higher in becoming a cop than it is acquiring a CCW permit (at least where I live). If you disagree feel free to explain why as opposed to having a silly tantrum. It would also make for more effective advocacy, if that is your interest here

Are you comparing specifically firearms related training? Because police have a wider variety of material to cover.
 
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