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Thread: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

  1. #701
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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    GUN CONTROL has not been effective in stopping violent crimes. INCREASING SENTENCES has been shown to be effective in other places.
    I have pointed out why this is a distinction without a difference a few times already. Ignoring that doesn't make that problem just disappear


    In THIS country, gun control laws without enforcement have been shown to be ineffective.
    Well, among other things, yes, weak legislation is pretty much worthless


    And yet, a whole group of mindless morons advocate for more of the same. More gun laws meant to target law abiding citizens. When it comes to actually targeting the violent criminals? Crickets.
    In like my last five posts I have been clear that I support increased penalties ....


    See...I think you are full of **** personally.
    So, unlike me, you don't support increased penalties?


    I think you cant come right and say what you mean because at the end of the day, you are no different than tres goofus.
    I just did explain exactly what I meant:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062333172

    it was actually a response to a question you asked and a post you even quoted. So surely you didn't miss it and can only assume that you are in fact fundamentally confused.

    You want more inane ineffective gun laws passed knowing full well they will never impact criminals...only law abiding citizens.
    So what exactly are you taking issue with, my support for harsher penalties or ending the lax oversight in P2P sales?

  2. #702
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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I have pointed out why this is a distinction without a difference a few times already. Ignoring that doesn't make that problem just disappear




    Well, among other things, yes, weak legislation is pretty much worthless




    In like my last five posts I have been clear that I support increased penalties ....




    So, unlike me, you don't support increased penalties?




    I just did explain exactly what I meant:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062333172

    it was actually a response to a question you asked and a post you even quoted. So surely you didn't miss it and can only assume that you are in fact fundamentally confused.



    So what exactly are you taking issue with, my support for harsher penalties or ending the lax oversight in P2P sales?
    I gotcha. You weighed in to this thread and took to post 701 to say that REALLY...you were just all for increased sentences for criminals using guns in the commission of a violent crime. Thats what you REALLY meant from the get go. I gotcha...

  3. #703
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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I gotcha. You weighed in to this thread and took to post 701 to say that REALLY...you were just all for increased sentences for criminals using guns in the commission of a violent crime.
    1) Why would I mention my position on new gun legislation when I was discussing arguments like "knives are more deadly than guns" and "gun laws do not restrict availability"?

    2) During those discussion I made clear I *did not * support excessive changes to current legislation

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062332942

    <<<No, I acknowledge simple facts "like laws restrict availability" and that "guns are more deadly than knives". That doesn't mean I support the introduction of new and extensive gun control measures. >>>

    lol ...




    Thats what you REALLY meant from the get go. I gotcha...[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1) Why would I mention my position on new gun legislation when I was discussing arguments like "knives are more deadly than guns" and "gun laws do not restrict availability"?

    2) During those discussion I made clear I *did not * support excessive changes to current legislation

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062332942

    <<<No, I acknowledge simple facts "like laws restrict availability" and that "guns are more deadly than knives". That doesn't mean I support the introduction of new and extensive gun control measures. >>>

    lol ...




    Thats what you REALLY meant from the get go. I gotcha...
    [/QUOTE]And you STILL cant see that 'gun laws' are not restricting availability. Thats simply a fact. Violent crime rates in inner cities prove it. The 'extensive' black market cited in the PBS article proves it. The fact that in the DC, Sandy Hook, Aurora Co, Phoneix Az, Va Tech, and other shooting happened WITH those gun control measures in place proves it.

    Want change? Go after the criminals using existing laws and then put them away for an extraordinarily long time. Spread the word. You will see change.

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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    And you STILL cant see that 'gun laws' are not restricting availability.[/quote]

    You just got done saying increased penalties helped restrict availability in japan ...

    Thats simply a fact. Violent crime rates in inner cities prove it. The 'extensive' black market cited in the PBS article proves it.
    You mean the articles you posted that outline laxed oversight over P2P sales? I already addressed this numerous times:

    <<<2) the links from you and dittohead paint the issue as mainly being dependent on weak regulations fueling legal, though questionable, transactions. So, again, as an argument that easily accessible black market guns are the consequence of heavy regulation (which was the argument I was addressing) it leaves something to be desired>>>

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062331069


    The fact that in the DC, Sandy Hook, Aurora Co, Phoneix Az, Va Tech, and other shooting happened WITH those gun control measures in place proves it.
    Except YOU have pointed out instances where gun legislation has restricted access. Based on YOUR evidence, what we can conclude is that current legislation isn't working, not that legislation doesn't work (again, it is YOUR evidence that shows this)


    Want change? Go after the criminals using existing laws and then put them away for an extraordinarily long time. Spread the word. You will see change.
    lol

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062333626

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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    And you STILL cant see that 'gun laws' are not restricting availability
    Quite to the contrary...I showed where even with gun legislation in place, criminals were importing illegal weapons by the caseload. You are extraordinarily selective in your interpretations. Gun control legislation DID NOT WORK (this is circular...we've been here before). Massive prison sentence increases to those existing laws DID work. Fear of going away for a very very VERY long time. Speeding laws dont stop people from speeding. Charging $50 per MPH over the speed limit does. No new laws...better enforcement of existing laws and increased penalties. And...thats a wrap.

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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Quite to the contrary...I showed where even with gun legislation in place, criminals were importing illegal weapons by the caseload.
    1) Pointing out restrictive legislation can be effective isn't the same as the argument "all restrictive legislation is effective'

    2) Your link indicates they were smuggling "300 guns at a time". That isn't a large number of guns, nor does it do much to indicate they were freely available, even within the Yakuza


    You are extraordinarily selective in your interpretations. Gun control legislation DID NOT WORK (this is circular...we've been here before).
    Again, you're making a distinction without a difference: legal penalties are an aspect of legislation. If increased legal penalties have deterred gun availability, then legislation has reduced availability. It doesn't matter some forms of legislation are ineffective, because according to your sources proper legislation can be. Thus, we disprove your previous claim, that legislation CAN NOT reduce availability ...


    Ignoring this line of logic doesn't make it go a way

    Massive prison sentence increases to those existing laws DID work. Fear of going away for a very very VERY long time. Speeding laws dont stop people from speeding. Charging $50 per MPH over the speed limit does. No new laws...better enforcement of existing laws and increased penalties. And...thats a wrap.
    changing legal penalties would be changing current law ...

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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1) Why would I mention my position on new gun legislation when I was discussing arguments like "knives are more deadly than guns" and "gun laws do not restrict availability"?

    2) During those discussion I made clear I *did not * support excessive changes to current legislation

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062332942

    <<<No, I acknowledge simple facts "like laws restrict availability" and that "guns are more deadly than knives". That doesn't mean I support the introduction of new and extensive gun control measures. >>>

    lol ...




    Thats what you REALLY meant from the get go. I gotcha...
    [/QUOTE]

    Laws only restrict honest people because criminals don't follow laws.

    I'm curious as to how you feel about our drug laws?

  9. #709
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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    Laws only restrict honest people because criminals don't follow laws.

    I'm curious as to how you feel about our drug laws?
    it's a point I have addressed a dozen times here.

    In fact, here is me referencing the fact that You even thanked another poster for providing material that shows gun restrictions lead to limited access, even for criminals. So I am lost on why you want me to address the same thing over and over again ...


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062333214

    PS you might find this helpful:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

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    Re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    it's a point I have addressed a dozen times here.

    In fact, here is me referencing the fact that You even thanked another poster for providing material that shows gun restrictions lead to limited access, even for criminals. So I am lost on why you want me to address the same thing over and over again ...


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062333214

    PS you might find this helpful:

    Proof by assertion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Nope, I asked you a direct question. There is no reason to post links. Now why are you so frightened to answer a question directly? How do you feel about the drug laws in the United States?

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