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Thread: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

  1. #621
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanUNC View Post
    You think that America is so different that the trend for every other country in the world doesn't apply? Then the burden of proof is on you to show that.
    wrong, the burden is on freedom hating control freaks who want to limit our freedom and rights to prove that their schemes will make us safer without unduly burdening the rights of free men. That you and people like you make asinine comparisons to countries that have different cultures, different ethic mixes etc (and its interesting how you avoid countries like Mexico, the RSA and Russia as well as Switzerland) proves you cannot find any evidence that your hoplophobic wet dreams can be justified by what has gone on in the USA-such as Chicago and DC having massive murder and crime rates despite complete handgun bans for YEARS



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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    While I'm no expert on the subject, I would like to see his evidence.
    For some reason, a few advocates here are against even discussing the topic of guns, and unfortunately fail to see how such positions and attitudes only hurt their long time interests

  3. #623
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanUNC View Post
    I agree that it would be difficult to prevent highly organized criminal groups from obtaining guns, but can your average lunatic like James Holmes pick one up?
    Why not? There are currently around 300 million LEGAL firearms here. There will ALWAYS be a market for firearms. You really believe they can sell heroin on the streets but wouldnt be able to come up with a handgun for a few hundred bucks?

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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    It doesn't exist. I have read the studies. Scotland is now, per capita, a far more violent society than ours
    Actually that is more of a function of how drastically different the definition of violent crime is between the two societies

    PolitiFact | Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

    Fact-Checking Ben Swann: Is the UK really 5 times more violent than the US? | The Skeptical Libertarian

    PS I would probably hold off on calling chain emails "studies". The later suggests something of actual academic merit

    <<<What Swann either doesn’t know, or simply doesn’t bother to tell his viewers, is that the definitions for “violent crime” are very different in the US and Britain, and the methodologies of the two statistics he cites are also different. (He probably simply doesn’t realize this: it appears that he lifted his data wholesale from a story in the Daily Mail, without checking it–something you might expect a fact checker to have done.)

    First, it should be noted that the figures Swann gives are out of date: in 2010, according to the FBI, the reported rate of violent crime in the US was 403 incidents per 100,000 people–the 466 figure comes from 2007. Second, and more importantly, the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a “violent crime” as one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

    The British Home Office, by contrast, has a substantially different definition of violent crime. The British definition includes all “crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all “sexual offenses,” as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and “forcible rapes.”>>>

  5. #625
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    from above: "But if you are, that is just sad and goes far in explaining why gun rights are circling the drain here"




    Indeed I do. I even own guns.




    No, I acknowledge simple facts "like laws restrict availability" and that "guns are more deadly than knives". That doesn't mean I support the introduction of new and extensive gun control measures.

    PS Maybe go read Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism and focus on her remarks about the dangers of an ideology trumping reality
    maybe you should read your own posts and tell us what part of them actually supports gun rights. I find it interesting that this forum is full of people who want to whine about pro gun posters and posts and then pretend they aren't anti gun. And owning guns means nothing. Lots of french knights had crossbows but they would draw and quarter (or worse) any commoner caught with one. Same with the ruling class of Japan when it came to swords. Lots of anti gun democrats have guns. THe aging princess Diane Feinswine had a carry permit in SF but refused to issue any to others when she was mayor. Jay Rockefeller voted for the clinton gun ban and admitted he owned an AR 15



  6. #626
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ANY desirable commodity that is banned can and will be procured. Gangs and violent criminals will get guns.
    Yet, this hasn't played out in Japan

    The drug ban is evidence of that reality.
    I just outlined how drugs are different than guns. You are free to disagree with that argument, but to be effective you will need to actually address it, not simply dismiss and ignore it


    Its simply stupid beyond words to pretend that violent criminals would NOT find a way to import guns, right in that crate next to the one marked "crack". Japan has very restrictive gun laws and stiff penalties for illegal gun ownership. You know who has no problem procuring illegal firearms in Japan? Their gangs.
    You said this before, but presented no evidence to support it, and I cited the lack of significant gun crime to undermine it. So one of us made a convincing argument, but it wasn't you

  7. #627
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanUNC View Post
    I bet these people are like this in real life:
    ALEX JONES vs PIERS MORGAN - YouTube
    Nope.Alex Jones simply looked silly. His immediate response to Morgan should have been to point out how wrong he was about the Aurora Colorado shooting. The AR15...Morgans pet cause...jammed approx a third of the way through the magazine. He then switched to a shotgun and handguns. Then it should be pointed out that the VAST MAJORITY of school shootings involve handguns, and lower caliber handguns at that. It should have been pointed out that Morgans tirade against AR15s was completely irrelevant with regard to the Az shooting as well as the VaTech shootings. All handguns. It should have been pointed out that calling for MORE background checks was pure stupidity using the tragedy at Sandy Hook and Aurora Co because background checks did nothing to stop the crimes from occurring. Then it should have been pointed out that the vast majority of violent crimes occur in inner city's involving gangs, and what, pray tell, did Morgan propose to do about the REAL problems? He should have been asked why he was so focused on law abiding citizens and legal gun ownership and why he was too cowardly to go after the violent thugs actually COMMITTING those 11,000 murders you cited earlier.

    And that same question should be asked of people like you.

  8. #628
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Actually that is more of a function of how drastically different the definition of violent crime is between the two societies

    PolitiFact | Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

    Fact-Checking Ben Swann: Is the UK really 5 times more violent than the US? | The Skeptical Libertarian

    PS I would probably hold off on calling chain emails "studies". The later suggests something of actual academic merit

    <<<What Swann either doesn’t know, or simply doesn’t bother to tell his viewers, is that the definitions for “violent crime” are very different in the US and Britain, and the methodologies of the two statistics he cites are also different. (He probably simply doesn’t realize this: it appears that he lifted his data wholesale from a story in the Daily Mail, without checking it–something you might expect a fact checker to have done.)

    First, it should be noted that the figures Swann gives are out of date: in 2010, according to the FBI, the reported rate of violent crime in the US was 403 incidents per 100,000 people–the 466 figure comes from 2007. Second, and more importantly, the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a “violent crime” as one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

    The British Home Office, by contrast, has a substantially different definition of violent crime. The British definition includes all “crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, all robberies, and all “sexual offenses,” as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and “forcible rapes.”>>>
    LETS CUT THE CRAP, I oppose the following as being both unconstitutional (on both second and tenth amendment grounds) and worthless in controlling criminals

    1) registration of weapons

    2) waiting periods

    3) limitations on how many weapons you can own or buy

    4) restrictions on magazine capacity or operation (ie semi auto or full auto)

    5) the NFA and the Hughes Amendment

    6) special (ie in addition to normal sales taxes) taxes on ammo or guns

    7) gun free zones in general

    8) insurance requirements on gun owners



    so tell me what you approve of



  9. #629
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    maybe you should read your own posts and tell us what part of them actually supports gun rights.
    The fact that I am not making silly claims like "knives are more deadly than guns" and making all gun advocates look like mindless ideologues?


    I find it interesting that this forum is full of people who want to whine about pro gun posters and posts and then pretend they aren't anti gun.
    Being pro gun doesn't mean I need to support every moronic argument made by a gun advocate.

  10. #630
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    re: Active gunmen in US navy Yard [W:69, 700]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LETS CUT THE CRAP, I oppose the following as being both unconstitutional (on both second and tenth amendment grounds) and worthless in controlling criminals

    1) registration of weapons

    2) waiting periods

    3) limitations on how many weapons you can own or buy

    4) restrictions on magazine capacity or operation (ie semi auto or full auto)

    5) the NFA and the Hughes Amendment

    6) special (ie in addition to normal sales taxes) taxes on ammo or guns

    7) gun free zones in general

    8) insurance requirements on gun owners



    so tell me what you approve of
    So we're just going to ignore the fact that you claimed to be thoroughly educated on a subject despite not knowing the very basics of the discussion, and that your idea of "a study" wouldn't even pass muster in a grade school research paper?

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