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Thread: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    I must note that the article you linked to refers to conviction for forging petition signatures. As reprehensible as that is - and I condemn the practice - it is NOT the same as fraudulently cast votes in an election or suppressing voters from casting votes in an election.

    I would also refer you to another case of petition fraud - Congressman Thad McCotter of Michigan - a Republican who just happened to be my Congressman.
    AG - Schuette Announces Two Convictions In McCotter Petition Scandal

    Not only did McCotter get on the ballot fraudulenty when he was caught, but he also did the same thing in at least two previous elections in which he was elected. This guy sat in Congress representing me and 700,000 other Michiganders and he cheated to get there.

    here is a guy who pleaded guilty to a similar offense after forging 4,000 signatures to get Republican Newt Gingrich on the Virginia ballot

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...primary-ballot

    I join with you in condemning such a practice. But lets be clear that petition chicanery is not the same as election ballot fraud. My challenge was to present verifiable evidence of mail ballot fraud and this article did not do so.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-19-13 at 01:36 PM.
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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No, there is no knowledge test required to vote which largely explains why the Democrats have done so well. If some voters understand that there have been changes made I would say they are better informed' while those who don't know about the changes would be 'less informed'. It was you who said nothing illegal was done.


    Then nothing illegal was done, correct?


    It seems that ballot rigging has been going at least since the days of (D) Boss Tweed and yet no uniform system has yet been established. Whose fault is that?
    You simply refuse to get it.

    Do you or do you not admit that election procedures can be manipulated to give one side or the other a particular advantage in determining the winner of the election short of doing anything illegal?
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    By all means do present your verifiable information that mail in ballots create election fraud.

    And lets flush this silly idea about it presents opportunity for fraud. Every election procedure could be said to present opportunity for fraud if one is devious enough, clever enough and unprincipled enough to attempt it.
    IMO, the reason voter fraud isn't viewed as a serious problem is because too little effort is put into detection and prosecution_

    If the IRS stopped investigating tax fraud we might conclude that the lack of convictions was an indication tax fraud didn't exist_

    And it seems to me the Democrat Party is the primary opposition to every policy put forth to ensure voter integrity and fair elections_

    Why do democrats invariably oppose such policies that place the exact same requirements on all voters regardless of political affiliation?!

    Some folks might view such a one-sided opposition as an indication that the Democrat Party believes voter fraud is working in their favor?!

    Food for thought!
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I must note that the article you linked to refers to conviction for forging petition signatures. As reprehensible as that is - and I condemn the practice - it is NOT the same as fraudulently cast votes in an election or suppressing voters from casting votes in an election.
    What those Democrats did was illegal and yet, in the case that bothers you most, nothing illegal was done. You use the word 'fraudulently ' yet no fraud was committed in the case under discussion.

    I would also refer you to another case of petition fraud - Congressman Thad McCotter of Michigan - a Republican who just happened to be my Congressman.
    AG - Schuette Announces Two Convictions In McCotter Petition Scandal
    But no fraud took place. It was all legal in this instance.

    Not only did McCotter get on the ballot fraudulenty when he was caught, but he also did the same thing in at least two previous elections in which he was elected. This guy sat in Congress representing me and 700,000 other Michiganders and he cheated to get there. here is a guy who pleaded guilty to a similar offense after forging 4,000 signatures to get Republican Newt Gingrich on the Virginia ballot

    Virginia Man Forged Thousands Of Signatures On Newt Gingrich's 2011 Primary Ballot
    You're moving away from the topic.

    I join with you in condemning such a practice. But lets be clear that petition chicanery is not the same as election ballot fraud. My challenge was to present verifiable evidence of mail ballot fraud and this article did not do so.
    Yes, it seems your challenge was unsuccessful.

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You simply refuse to get it.

    Do you or do you not admit that election procedures can be manipulated to give one side or the other a particular advantage in determining the winner of the election short of doing anything illegal?
    I agree 100%. Gerrymandering is one of the methods but the most common is lying by those candidates who run for office, and their supporters often happily accept that if their candidate wins. At the same time they'll often claim their opponent erred by telling the truth; that it was poor politics..

    I have little sympathy with voters who openly support liars and they usually get the government they deserve as a result.

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    IMO, the reason voter fraud isn't viewed as a serious problem is because too little effort is put into detection and prosecution_

    If the IRS stopped investigating tax fraud we might conclude that the lack of convictions was an indication tax fraud didn't exist_

    And it seems to me the Democrat Party is the primary opposition to every policy put forth to ensure voter integrity and fair elections_

    Why do democrats invariably oppose such policies that place the exact same requirements on all voters regardless of political affiliation?!

    Some folks might view such a one-sided opposition as an indication that the Democrat Party believes voter fraud is working in their favor?!

    Food for thought!
    Every time I have ever voted there are procedures in place to ensure the legality of the vote. Those protections to detect fraud are already there and have been there for a very long time.

    All your words boil down to one point: you have no evidence to talk about.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I agree 100%. Gerrymandering is one of the methods but the most common is lying by those candidates who run for office, and their supporters often happily accept that if their candidate wins. At the same time they'll often claim their opponent erred by telling the truth; that it was poor politics..

    I have little sympathy with voters who openly support liars and they usually get the government they deserve as a result.
    I imagine many people feel that way when the other side wins. That is true regardless of party or ideology.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What those Democrats did was illegal and yet, in the case that bothers you most, nothing illegal was done. You use the word 'fraudulently ' yet no fraud was committed in the case under discussion.



    But no fraud took place. It was all legal in this instance.



    You're moving away from the topic.



    Yes, it seems your challenge was unsuccessful.
    I have no idea what you are talking about and it seems neither do you.

    You provided an example of two men convicted for forging petition signatures for Democrats. I gave you more examples of people doing the same thing for Republicans. I even gabe you the case of a sitting US Congressman - a Republican - who did it in three different elections before he was caught and convictions resulted.

    You tell me I am straying from the topic but it was YOU who introduced the evidence about petition signatures and I merely matched it - and bettered it - with other similar examples. You really need to make up your mind what you want to talk about.

    What "unsuccesful challenge" from me are you talking about? I challenged people to present verifiable evidence to voter election fraud of such a significant nature the it meritied action to solve the 'problem'. The unsuccessful part comes from people like you who cannot rise to the challenge and meet it.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-20-13 at 08:55 AM.
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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Every time I have ever voted there are procedures in place to ensure the legality of the vote. Those protections to detect fraud are already there and have been there for a very long time.

    All your words boil down to one point: you have no evidence to talk about.
    Evidence of what? That politicians lie? That there has been dishonesty in the election system? Just what are you saying here?

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    Re: Debbie Wasserman Schultz on COL recall: 'Voter Suppression, Pure and Simple’

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I imagine many people feel that way when the other side wins. That is true regardless of party or ideology.
    Except i never mentioned 'when the other side wins'. I was talking about politicians who lie and gerrymandering.

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