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Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase [W:68]

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

TheNextEra said:
Rape apologists are those blaming people putting women in the military for rapes instead of blaming the people who actually do the rapes.
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I certainly don't blame women who have been raped or sexually assaulted for joining the military. But this of course can be based on a case by case basis. I have met many females while in the military that love the male attention and expect everyone to play by her rules. She holds the power to destroy someones career if she wishes and she knows this. I have seen women use this as leverage at work in order to get what they want and when they don't, that is when her flirtatious behavior is used against whoever does her wrong. There is no counter balance to this tactic and that is what the new problem in the military will be once we get done completely destroying the protection from being accused of rape.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Capster78 said:
I certainly don't blame women for who have been raped or sexually assaulted for joining the military. But this of course can be based on a case by case basis. I have met many females while in the military that love the male attention and expect everyone to play by her rules. She holds the power to destroy someones career if she wishes and she knows this. I have seen women use this as leverage at work in order to get what they want and when they don't, that is when her flirtatious behavior is used against whoever does her wrong. There is no counter balance to this tactic and that is what the new problem in the military will be once we get done completely destroying the protection from being accused of rape.
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And I understand that "can" happen but are you actually making a claim that this is the majority? If not then let's stick to what is actually being talked about and that is some people blaming rapes on the people that put women in the military and how wrong that is.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

TheNextEra said:
And I understand that "can" happen but are you actually making a claim that this is the majority? If not then let's stick to what is actually being talked about and that is some people blaming rapes on the people that put women in the military and how wrong that is.
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I certainly don't hear a majority of people claiming that women are responsible for being raped because they joined the military. I do believe we need to hold women more responsibly for their own personal safety but that is not the same as blaming them for the result. For example, and one I have seen quite often, a female that goes out with a group of guys and get silly drunk with them. She likes the attention, she liked her attention being fought over and competed for. It strokes her ego.. But what these women are not being taught, and what they should be taught is that the attention seeking and ego stroking they are involving themselves in leaves them open for being taken advantage of. There needs to be social pressure on women for this to become unacceptable behavior, or at least called what it is, stupid. Just as any guy would be called stupid for walking down a street in a bad neighborhood with wads of money hanging out of their pockets when they get robbed. It does not excuse the crime or the criminal from being charged. But we all would call that guy an idiot, which is why most people don't do it. There simply is no social pressure on women to feel responsible for their own well being. They are basically told that it is the responsibility of everone else around them to make sure they are protected. I think that if there was more social pressure on women to keep themselves out of dangerous situations and watch out for themselves, rape statistics would decline. I think we are not attacking the problem correctly.
 
Capster78 said:
The big problem I have with this is that it is looked at as if it is a recent problem. The truth of the matter is that sexual assault and rape are actually WAY DOWN in the military. A few factors are driving the upward trend in numbers. One factor is the reporting system. The reporting system gives victims options they did not have before to report sexual assaults and rapes. Victims can remain anonymous until the investigation is completed and charges are filed. This was a much needed change.... However, while this was a positive change, the negative change is the expansion of the definition of sexual assault. Simply put, sexual assault is defined by the offended individual. Simply looking at a female the wrong way can be sexual assault in the military. The other negative aspect is that since reported sexual assaults and rapes have gone up due to the ease of reporting and not because there has been an actual increase in the number of sexual assaults and rapes, there has been a lot of alarmism and knee jerk reactions. This has allowed more frivilous and false claims lead to prosecution of innocent people. There has not been a counter ballance to this such as sever punishments for false reporting, nor has there been emphisis on investigating the credibility of the claim. In many cases, the credibility of the victim is not admissable in court.

So all in all, this has been a negative thing for victims of real sexual assault and rape along with the protection of false accusations.
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Please read the link.
Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase - ABC News
 
Navy Pride said:
Please read the link.
Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase - ABC News
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Do you not understand the logic I am presenting...... The fact that more are being reported really means nothing considering there have been vast changes in the reporting process along with the ever expanding definition of sexual assault is more likely the reason why it looks as if there are more of them. When in reality, there are not really more sexual assaults / rapes occurring, its just that they are being reported, and in some cases, over reported where as before, they were not.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
According to the Army's "Blue Book" after repealing DADT same sex homosexual rapes have significantly increased in the Army.

Liberals rarely ever get any thing right and when it comes to social engineering they never take the time to look at what the consequences will be.

Going back to the liberal social engineering during the Vietnam war with McNamara's "Moron Brigade" to todays Obama agenda of changing the face of the U.S. military by using liberal social engineering, soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen end up unnecessary bleeding and dieing in the name of political correctness.
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You always know when a post has no credibility when someone uses the word "liberal" or "conservative" more than twice. This post is an excellent example of this.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

MarineTpartier said:
Yeah, it is in SOME men's nature to rape. You act as if I said all men rape all women. Read what I friggin said. I said the more women are around men, the more rapes will occur. It's inevitable. That's with anything in life. If you drive more, you're more apt to wreck. If you play sports, you're more apt to be injured. The more women are around men, the more likely it is that a woman will run across a man who will sexually assault her. It's the way the world works. And NOWHERE in my post did I say it was okay bro. If you can point it out, I'd love to see it. You just decided you didn't like what I said and tried to take it to an extreme because you really have no counterpoint or understanding of what I'm talking about.
The fact of the matter is that we can't predict what men will sexually assault women. We can't control that. The one thing we CAN CONTROL is the amount of time women spend time around men in confined/stressful/austere environments. When our leadership, civilian and military, decide they want to allow women to be in areas or MOS's that will make them be around men more often, they need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. All men know it's not okay to sexually assault a woman. We all know we'll go to jail for it. Yet some of us still do it. So really there's no other logical thing to do other than separate men and women in the military. Politicians and General officers have decided that equality is more important than safety. And here we are.
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Rape is a felony. There are two other options that are far more appropriate:

1) Better screening of our military. People who commit rape are not average, run of the mill males. They are criminals or suffer from some issue. Our military should be doing all it can to make sure that members are not going to commit criminal acts. Now, I understand that preventing this completely is not possible. Not everyone shows signs. However, better screening might prevent some of these acts.

2) Education of our military. More sex interaction education. We are dealing with young people who need to be reminded that just because they have impulses, do NOT mean that they have the right to succumb to them, and just because women are around, doesn't mean that they can do as they please.

Preventing women from serving is absurd. It's reactionary. It gives the impression that women are the lesser sex and need to be protected. It also designates men as predators. These are gross overgeneralizations.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

CaptainCourtesy said:
You always know when a post has no credibility when someone uses the word "liberal" or "conservative" more than twice. This post is an excellent example of this.
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No, I don't know that.

So which one is it ?

Homosexuals rapes haven't increased in the Army after repealing DADT ?

That McNamara's Moron Brigade prevailed on the battlefield and we marched down the streets of Hanoi in victory ?

Or that soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen don't bleed or die because of liberal social engineering experimentations ?
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

CaptainCourtesy said:
1) Better screening of our military.

2) Education of our military. More sex interaction education. Preventing women from serving is absurd. It's reactionary.

It gives the impression that women are the lesser sex and need to be protected.
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It seems it's has been the libs in the name of political correctness who has forbid the military to screen out those who shouldn't be serving in our military. It's the libs who keep lowering the standards.

How many more diversity and sensitivity courses must those serving in the military must attend ? These mandatory PC courses have already lowered the combat readiness of our military, how much more does the left want ?

So what do you suggest, communist style brainwashing that it's politically incorrect to protect women ?
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
It seems it's has been the libs in the name of political correctness who has forbid the military to screen out those who shouldn't be serving in our military. It's the libs who keep lowering the standards.

How many more diversity and sensitivity courses must those serving in the military must attend ? These mandatory PC courses have already lowered the combat readiness of our military, how much more does the left want ?

So what do you suggest, communist style brainwashing that it's politically incorrect to protect women ?
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Let's see... two libs, one left, and one communist implying the left. No substance in your post at all.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:
I blame no one.........There are enough problems on a Navy Combatant without adding women to the equation and its not just the males...Liberals want to ake the Navy a social experiment with women or gays and it just won't work
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You are blaming liberals so that is lie #1

You have in the past blamed women for using sexuality (**** teasing) to gain rank so that is lie #2

You seem to think no gay men have ever served and 'serviced' aboard a US Navy ship before DADT lie #3

What would be interesting is prior to DADT how many discharges were given to gay Naval men for homosexual acts while underway. How many reports of homosexual acts while underway were reported. How many people serve aboard US Navy ships each year to get an idea if the reported sexual assaults are above land based units and the civilian population in general.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Paschendale said:
Except that, as it has been pointed out over and over again in this thread, a lot of it goes unreported. A lot of it goes unpunished. And that won't do. A lot of men don't know it's not okay to sexually assault a woman. In fact, that there were no circumstances where it was okay is a relatively new concept. Remember, when you were born, it was legal for husbands to rape their wives in most states. So no, there is plenty logical to do besides segregate women out of opportunities that we reserve to men. You teach men not to freaking rape anyone.
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So, let me get this straight. Your contention is that raping of women has not been properly exposed as the bad practice it is to males in general. Therefore, we shouldn't segregate men and women (in the military) but instead just try to train it out of men? Not being sarcastic, just stating what I think I'm reading.
As far as the military and sexual assault, trust me, we know it's wrong. When I joined the Marine Corps in 1999 there were sexual assault classes. It was annual training, we had a sexual assault representative for each battalion (about 600-700 Marines) that was sent to Sexual Assault Response Coordinator (SARC) school, and we had a specific chain of command to go to in case of sexual assault. It has only gotten more comprehensive since then. We now are training quarterly on sexual assault and the SARC's are civilians now so as to encourage reporting. This is why I initially said that unless a person is in the military, they don't know what they're talking about. Sexual assault has been exposed as the bad thing that it is to us. It's not a lack of training. Heck, we even have training now that actually shows a video of a soldier convicted of sexual assault telling us why it's wrong. It's not a lack of punishment. We see people getting hammered with courts martial, etc every time it happens. The only other thing it can be is more exposure between sexes.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

TheNextEra said:
Well since rapes happen each year in the U.S. and obviously men can't control themselves we should get rid of all women in the U.S. as well since men can't control themselves according to your logic.

I have never seen a bunch of apologetics to rapists as I have seen in this thread. I guess using your logic marines and navy have absolutely NO discipline.

now given what I've seen you are wrong and navy and marines DO have discipline but if you are saying they can't keep their hands off women and act professionally you are degrading the military.
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Well, seeing as how according to The Campus Sexual Assault Study (2007) our sexual assault rate is significantly lower than similar age groups in the civilian world I'd say we are much more disciplined that you guys aren't we? No one is trying to make excuses for rapists here, as I have pointed out. What I am saying is that our leadership should have anticipated this happening due to the increased exposure that men and women are having to each other. Like I said to another user, if you drive more, you wreck more. If you play sports, you're more likely to get injured. If you put men around women more, it's bound to happen. Let me also point out that male on male sexual assault has skyrocketed since DADT was repealed. That has also contributed to the rise in assault numbers. 53 percent of sexual assaults are male on male.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/u...e-overlooked-victims.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

notquiteright said:
You are blaming liberals so that is lie #1
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They were the ones who pushed the policy

You have in the past blamed women for using sexuality (**** teasing) to gain rank so that is lie #2
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Actually that is correct, and a well known phenomenon among both males and affronted females who are treated suspiciously because of it.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

MarineTpartier said:
So, let me get this straight. Your contention is that raping of women has not been properly exposed as the bad practice it is to males in general. Therefore, we shouldn't segregate men and women (in the military) but instead just try to train it out of men? Not being sarcastic, just stating what I think I'm reading.
As far as the military and sexual assault, trust me, we know it's wrong. When I joined the Marine Corps in 1999 there were sexual assault classes. It was annual training, we had a sexual assault representative for each battalion (about 600-700 Marines) that was sent to Sexual Assault Response Coordinator (SARC) school, and we had a specific chain of command to go to in case of sexual assault. It has only gotten more comprehensive since then. We now are training quarterly on sexual assault and the SARC's are civilians now so as to encourage reporting. This is why I initially said that unless a person is in the military, they don't know what they're talking about. Sexual assault has been exposed as the bad thing that it is to us. It's not a lack of training. Heck, we even have training now that actually shows a video of a soldier convicted of sexual assault telling us why it's wrong. It's not a lack of punishment. We see people getting hammered with courts martial, etc every time it happens. The only other thing it can be is more exposure between sexes.
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Precisely. The military long since reached the point of diminishing returns with its' sexual assault training requirements.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

CaptainCourtesy said:
Rape is a felony. There are two other options that are far more appropriate:

1) Better screening of our military. People who commit rape are not average, run of the mill males. They are criminals or suffer from some issue. Our military should be doing all it can to make sure that members are not going to commit criminal acts. Now, I understand that preventing this completely is not possible. Not everyone shows signs. However, better screening might prevent some of these acts.
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Currently, no one that has committed a felony of any kind can join the military. Further, especially in our current recruiting environment, people that have committed violent misdemeanors are not viewed as a desirable candidate and are not actively recruited. I am sitting right next to a recruiter who is in charge of recruiting for the entire northeast. Now, if we're speaking of the past, yes some people were accepted with some of these things. You can thank our politicians that put us in a two front war for that. We had to plus up for those wars. Trust me, recruiters had already gotten pretty much every desirable candidate they could get into the training pipeline. The only thing the services could do was lower the standards. The Army was especially guilty of this. I was a Drill Instructor on Parris Island during the plus up in the 2005-2006 timeline. I could see a distinct difference in recruits.
CaptainCourtesy said:
2) Education of our military. More sex interaction education. We are dealing with young people who need to be reminded that just because they have impulses, do NOT mean that they have the right to succumb to them, and just because women are around, doesn't mean that they can do as they please.
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We receive sexual assault training quarterly to include a new video showing a soldier convicted of sexual assault telling his story and why he was wrong. We also have Sexual Assault Response Coordinators (SARC) whose sole job is to deal with sexual assault. They are civilians at the higher level. There is no specific chain of command regarding sexual assault either. Servicemembers are encouraged to contact whomever they are most comfortable with if they have something to report.
CaptainCourtesy said:
Preventing women from serving is absurd. It's reactionary. It gives the impression that women are the lesser sex and need to be protected. It also designates men as predators. These are gross overgeneralizations.
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I never said prevent women from serving. Never did. What I said is that men and women should be more segregated like they used to be. When I first joined in 1999, women were not allowed to serve in combat commands at any level. Now, they can serve at the regimental level (a regiment is about 3000 Marines) and a proposal is out there to put them at the battalion level (about 600 Marines). Battalions are much more close knit and in the field more often. The numbers will go up.
Further, as I said in another post, male on male assault now accounts for 53% of sexual assaults. This has skyrocketed since 2010. Remember what happened in 2010? I'm not proposing that we should reinstate DADT. I don't think anyone should be prevented from serving due to their sexual orientation. However, like I've said with integrating men and women, the more exposure you have to more likely sexual assault is to occur.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

cpwill said:
Precisely. The military long since reached the point of diminishing returns with its' sexual assault training requirements.
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I know bro! It's just like suicide man. We have talked about it so much that it's now giving people ideas. Did you hear about the Marine in 2d LAR that left a note stating the Suicide Prevention training that he had seen that day gave him the idea to kill himself? When you talk about it so much, it's almost like the human brain automatically thinks about it more.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

cpwill said:
They were the ones who pushed the policy Actually that is correct, and a well known phenomenon among both males and affronted females who are treated suspiciously because of it.
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You miss the point, he claims to blame no one and then blames the Liberals... :roll:

Yeah those bad ol' 'liberals' pushing to end separate race based units in the military. Pushing to end the prosecution of gays in the military- they have served proudly and honorably for centuries. Now to allow women the chance to advance in a career field that includes duty at sea. What would the Cons have the Navy do, keep the females on shore typing and being nurses? :roll:

The excuse a woman can unbutton a few buttons or wear a 'Polly push-up bra' and gain career favor attacks the NCO corps of the Navy. It says the Navy lacks the basic professionalism and basic discipline needed if war was to break out. (It also ignores the brown noser male trying to curry favor)

Doesn't fly.... or perhaps a better term... doesn't swim....
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
Sorry that you have a comprehension problem.

Should I have thrown in progressive ?
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He's saying you should have more content to your posts beyond "grumble grumble grumble Liberals grumble grumble Communists grumble grumble grumble". Having suffered through many of your previous threads, I personally think he's asking too much of you.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

poweRob said:
He's saying you should have more content to your posts beyond "grumble grumble grumble Liberals grumble grumble Communists grumble grumble grumble". Having suffered through many of your previous threads, I personally think he's asking too much of you.
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Your response is just more evidence that libs are all in lockstep and descent is forbidden.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
Your response is just more evidence that libs are all in lockstep and descent is forbidden.
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Volunteer victimhood. What a surprise.
 
Navy Pride said:
I told all you "feel Good" Liberals a long time ago that women serving on Navy combatants at sea would never work....Its really the tip of the iceberg.
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You'll have to find a better reason to keep women out of the Navy than 'men just cannot resist the temptation to rape their colleagues.' If your contention is that men are just animals then perhaps the UCMJ should be adjusted accordingly. Mandatory execution for sexual assault perhaps? That is typically the course of action taken against a dog for attacking people isn't it?
 
Napoleon said:
You'll have to find a better reason to keep women out of the Navy than 'men just cannot resist the temptation to rape their colleagues.' If your contention is that men are just animals then perhaps the UCMJ should be adjusted accordingly. Mandatory execution for sexual assault perhaps? That is typically the course of action taken against a dog for attacking people isn't it?
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Sure, let's do it for civilians too since your sexual assault rate is higher that ours. How about that?
 
Napoleon said:
You'll have to find a better reason to keep women out of the Navy than 'men just cannot resist the temptation to rape their colleagues.' If your contention is that men are just animals then perhaps the UCMJ should be adjusted accordingly. Mandatory execution for sexual assault perhaps? That is typically the course of action taken against a dog for attacking people isn't it?
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Do you know how to read? I said keep women off combatants at sea.
 
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