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Thread: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

  1. #71
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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    The point isn't the status of the attacker, it's the purpose of the attack. Should terrorism be treated the same as simple assault? Was 9/11 more than 3,000 murders? Was the whole greater than the sum of it's parts? What about the beltway snipers. Is what they did simple murder, or is the culminated effect of it a crime in and of itself? If so, then why are hate crimes any different?

    If the motive and effect of a crime are greater than the crime itself, why shouldn't that be an additional charge? For example, if a new synagogue is built in a neighborhood that previously had none, and on Saturday morning when the Rabbi gets there to open the doors, there are swastika’s and Nazi propaganda spray painted on the church with stuff like "Jews get out" all over the building, would that be no different than a graffiti charge for some kid spray painting "Timmy + Janice 4ever" or something on the side of the church?

    If you see that as being the same thing as a graffiti charge, then you're not taking a very good look at the nature of the crime. A hate crime is an attack on a whole population.
    Wrong. You cannot be charged with robbing (or with intent to rob) all rich folks simply because you acted upon one member of that potential victim class. To presume that a serial crime spree was to occur based on one act is insane, if you can prove that a conspiracy existed to commit further crimes then make that charge in addition.

    The same applies to any other crime. Lets say you were ordered to pay restitution for your "tagging" of a church, would that be payable to all Jews, all churches or only to cover repair/repainting of the damaged building? Why should that be based on the content of the graffiti? What if the graffiti said I hate Obama or property of the bloods?

    Your analysis of the beltway sniper(s) is also wrong, some of the shootings (those with the handgun) were done in the process of a robbery, others were done to make the real purpose, the planned killing of his estranged wife, seem to lack any motive. Does it matter to you why the perp decided to break your nose? Is it somehow worse if they hated the color of your skin, your wearing of an opposing team's sports jersey, wanted to take your wallet or simply wanted to impress their girl/boyfriend?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #72
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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    FYI, they are considering classifying this as a hate crime.

    In terms of the validity of hate crimes: There should be no question that intent is a major component in how we determine the nature and punishment of a crime. E.g. we offer harsher punishments for premeditated murder, than for a murder committed in the heat of the moment. We also apply stiffer punishments for crimes that we find more heinous.

    If the statute specifically says "assaulting a black person, for any reason at all, adds 2 years to the sentence," that would violate the Equal Protection Clause. A statute that punishes a crime because racism is a motive -- and does not exempt specific races from prosecution -- is Constitutional.

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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    The point isn't the status of the attacker, it's the purpose of the attack. Should terrorism be treated the same as simple assault? Was 9/11 more than 3,000 murders? Was the whole greater than the sum of it's parts? What about the beltway snipers. Is what they did simple murder, or is the culminated effect of it a crime in and of itself? If so, then why are hate crimes any different?

    If the motive and effect of a crime are greater than the crime itself, why shouldn't that be an additional charge? For example, if a new synagogue is built in a neighborhood that previously had none, and on Saturday morning when the Rabbi gets there to open the doors, there are swastika’s and Nazi propaganda spray painted on the church with stuff like "Jews get out" all over the building, would that be no different than a graffiti charge for some kid spray painting "Timmy + Janice 4ever" or something on the side of the church?

    If you see that as being the same thing as a graffiti charge, then you're not taking a very good look at the nature of the crime. A hate crime is an attack on a whole population.
    All I'm seeing is a desire to revoke the First Amendment and a whole bunch of thoughtcrime.

  4. #74
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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    FYI, they are considering classifying this as a hate crime.o

    In terms of the validity of hate crimes: There should be no question that intent is a major component in how we determine the nature and punishment of a crime. E.g. we offer harsher punishments for premeditated murder, than for a murder committed in the heat of the moment. We also apply stiffer punishments for crimes that we find more heinous.

    If the statute specifically says "assaulting a black person, for any reason at all, adds 2 years to the sentence," that would violate the Equal Protection Clause. A statute that punishes a crime because racism is a motive -- and does not exempt specific races from prosecution -- is Constitutional.
    Classifying any crime above and beyond the existing classifications is a perversion of justice.

    We can already re-claisfy a crime based on intent, adding " hate " as a qualification only empowers the state to tack on more punishment

    It's wrong whether its being applied to the sub-human that attacked and killed that man or if its applied to some Skinhead who kills a black person.

  5. #75
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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    All I'm seeing is a desire to revoke the First Amendment and a whole bunch of thoughtcrime.
    Wow. That's all you see out of that? Okay. Never mind then.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I hope they lock this guy up and throw away the key...The larger question I have is why the spike in black on white racial crime lately? What factors do y'all see as causing this to, if not be happening as portrayed as far as news reporting, then why the increased reporting of this type of thing....And if it is as prevalent as the reports on the news would suggest, why isn't there more of a public plea to the black community to knock it off?
    Why plea? Why not a demand?

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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    You cannot get any more blacker than Steve "Martin".

    Attachment 67153409
    Well, he was born a poor black child.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    You're right, and of course it would. The difference is that white people tend not to care about such things (outside of a few minor fringe groups), but the reverse would cause the likes of Sharpton and Jackson to exit their black caves, rally the morons that follow their cults of personality, and make outrageous, vocal claims.

    Pretty much the only (and easiest) way to level out the playing field would be to make huge deals about cases like this and push for extended jail sentences for this man. Maybe the black activist community and other minorities of double-digit IQs can see how stupid they look.

    Hell, just look at this board. You hardly see any white race-baiters around, but you see plenty of black ones (or white race apologists making asses of themselves). It's just accepted. Therein lies the problem.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Jeff...-a&channel=rcs

    It's in every major and minor national news stories, including the racial aspects of the story, and wide-spread calls for prosecution as a hate crime. So yeah, exactly what you said would happen if the victim were black is already happening. So what's your rant about "race baiters" about? The exact same thing is happening that you fear would happen if the victim weren't white. Yet the victim is white.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Jeff...-a&channel=rcs

    It's in every major and minor national news stories, including the racial aspects of the story, and wide-spread calls for prosecution as a hate crime. So yeah, exactly what you said would happen if the victim were black is already happening. So what's your rant about "race baiters" about? The exact same thing is happening that you fear would happen if the victim weren't white. Yet the victim is white.
    So what should be happening is actually happening. Remind me to jump for joy.

    Has Sharpton launched a statement yet about how it was the white guy's fault?

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    Re: Union Square ‘I hate white people’ beating victim dies; suspect in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Has Sharpton launched a statement yet about how it was the white guy's fault?
    No. Why in the world would you expect him to do that?
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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