• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Police detain George Zimmerman after 911 call from wife [W:265]

Goshin said:
.
Click to expand...

Ah... so essentially you're saying I'm biased on this subject because I experienced abuse. Does that also apply to you? You said you'd experienced abuse as well. Does this apply to women who have been abused? Are they all incapable of being objective about the subject of domestic abuse? Are only those who have NOT been abused capable of being objective about it? Shall we assume then that experience in this matter is not a good teacher and that only those with NO experience in the matter have a valid opinion?
Click to expand...

No I am saying it is probably harder for BOTH of us to be objective. That does not discredit your perspective. The personal experience does not make it impossible it makes it more challenging for anyone...male or female.

*I* am not biased... I am the one advocating that BOTH genders be responsible and held EQUALLY accountable. The problem is that the man-as-aggressor stereotype is WRONG, just like most stereotypes... and those who perpetrate it should be just as ashamed as those who perpetrate racial stereotypes because it is just as ugly and untrue.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. I have known enough crazy women in my life to know that they are probably more likely to be the instigators.

Sounds like 'Separate but Equal' to me. You're endorsing gender-bias in law... I have a suspicion you would not like it if the bias ran in the other direction on some other issue
Click to expand...

I understand how you would feel this way. But what are we to do if the objective is to first keep people from causing one another physical harm.
 
Goshin said:
.
Click to expand...

Ah... so essentially you're saying I'm biased on this subject because I experienced abuse. Does that also apply to you? You said you'd experienced abuse as well. Does this apply to women who have been abused? Are they all incapable of being objective about the subject of domestic abuse? Are only those who have NOT been abused capable of being objective about it? Shall we assume then that experience in this matter is not a good teacher and that only those with NO experience in the matter have a valid opinion?
Click to expand...

No I am saying it is probably harder for BOTH of us to be objective. That does not discredit your perspective. The personal experience does not make it impossible it makes it more challenging for anyone...male or female.

*I* am not biased... I am the one advocating that BOTH genders be responsible and held EQUALLY accountable. The problem is that the man-as-aggressor stereotype is WRONG, just like most stereotypes... and those who perpetrate it should be just as ashamed as those who perpetrate racial stereotypes because it is just as ugly and untrue.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. I have known enough crazy women in my life to know that they are probably more likely to be the instigators.

Sounds like 'Separate but Equal' to me. You're endorsing gender-bias in law... I have a suspicion you would not like it if the bias ran in the other direction on some other issue
Click to expand...

I understand how you would feel this way. But what are we to do if the objective is to first keep people from causing one another physical harm.
 
opendebate said:
I understand how you would feel this way. But what are we to do if the objective is to first keep people from causing one another physical harm.
Click to expand...




The same thing we do with all other cases of violence. We say that it is wrong and unlawful to initiate violence against an innocent party, period.


If one man slaps another in the face, and the other responds by shooting him dead, we tend to prosecute that because it is typically a disproportionate response... but if the slapper had survived he would still be guilty of assault and battery because he did initiate it.

Similarly, if a woman slaps a man and he responds by punching her and breaking her jaw, that is disproportionate force and he could be subject to prosecution... as could she, since she initiated the assault, but in a lesser degree. However if she tries to brain him with a 4 lb iron skillet, that is assault with a deadly weapon and frankly he'd be justified in killing her to stop that assault.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I'm an old dude, here is the original by those darned Canadians. ;)
Click to expand...

Despite the fact that I happen think that Lenny is a sexy sexy little dude I am not too far behind you in years. So in terms of just quality music....you win.
 
Goshin said:
The same thing we do with all other cases of violence. We say that it is wrong and unlawful to initiate violence against an innocent party, period.


If one man slaps another in the face, and the other responds by shooting him dead, we tend to prosecute that because it is typically a disproportionate response... but if the slapper had survived he would still be guilty of assault and battery because he did initiate it.

Similarly, if a woman slaps a man and he responds by punching her and breaking her jaw, that is disproportionate force and he could be subject to prosecution... as could she, since she initiated the assault, but in a lesser degree. However if she tries to brain him with a 4 lb iron skillet, that is assault with a deadly weapon and frankly he'd be justified in killing her to stop that assault.
Click to expand...

I don't think we disagree.
 
opendebate said:
I don't think we disagree.
Click to expand...



A good many women who have experienced domestic abuse respond in the long-term by trying to educate others about the problem.


You could say I am the male counterpart to that. When the subject arises, I try to inform people and get them to understand that domestic violence most emphatically goes both ways, that the stereotype of "its almost all men's fault" is emphatically wrong, and that we need to be addressing female-on-male domestic abuse as a society rather than sweeping it under the rug.


For many years it was very difficult for me to talk about it even to my family or close friends; it has taken a lot for me to get to be willing to discuss it with strangers.
 
Goshin said:
You could say I am the male counterpart to that. When the subject arises, I try to inform people and get them to understand that domestic violence most emphatically goes both ways, that the stereotype of "its almost all men's fault" is emphatically wrong, and that we need to be addressing female-on-male domestic abuse as a society rather than sweeping it under the rug.
Click to expand...

For many years it was very difficult for me to talk about it even to my family or close friends; it has taken a lot for me to get to be willing to discuss it with strangers.
Click to expand...

I get that. The really unfair pressures we put on men to be stoic and repressed. A twisted version of strength in my opinion. Good for you for have the genuine courage to discuss it.


the stereotype of "its almost all men's fault" is emphatically wrong,
Click to expand...

Universals like this almost always are.
 
Re: George Zimmerman in Custody After Gun Incident

Mr. Invisible said:
The real question is this: Why the f*** is this in the news? It isn't important, like, at all.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me?....on the first part, not the last.

Of course learning that a man who was acquitted of murder not more than 60 days ago and subsequently threatens his estranged wife and father-in-law WITH A GUN would make national news. Granted, it's not an important issue, but it is newsworthy.

Look, George Zimmerman's actions since the trial has a lot of people raising a eyebrow about this man. He goes to a gun manufacturing company within days after the trial. Why? He confronts his ex-wife and father-in-law with a gun for goodness sakes! Does he feel emboldened to wave his gun around now as if no one will oppose him? Does he truly believe he "got away with it once, he can get away with it again"?...an inferiority complex? Is he really the mild mannered person he was made out to be?

Not important, certainly, but interesting...things that make you go, "Hmmmm....?"
 
Re: George Zimmerman in Custody After Gun Incident

Ockham said:
Well because there are many butthurt people after the court case who wish nothing but Zimmerman's death in what they deem as "justice".
Click to expand...

Over-hype for sure!

Admittedly, I didn't think George Zimmerman was innocent, but I certainly didn't want to see him dead. What I wanted was a fair trial where all the evidence was presented and a fair verdict rendered. I got that. Until the guy started mindlessly injecting himself back in the public eye I'd put him out of my memory.
 
Re: Boy just can stay out of trouble

rocket88 said:
That's BS and you know it. I can't tell you how many people didn't want to believe anything bad about him. That whole issue was full of idiots on both sides.
Click to expand...

My wife and I were saying this very same thing today when we heard the latest news. I think if those who supported Zimmerman were truly being honest, I think they'd have to admit that they gave George Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he was taunted as "the law abiding citizen who doesn't get angry, cares about his neighborhood, wants to be a peacekeeper and volunteers to minority children" whereas Trayvon was "a young punk kid who was always in trouble, did drugs and was a juvenile delinquent". In short, Zimmerman by all accounts was squeaky clean and Trayvon was a troubled teen. And quite honestly, I can't say I blame folks for having such instant impressions. But what some of us were trying to say all along was, "What if you got it wrong? What if the guy who came across as the good guy was really the bad guy? And what if the troubled teen wasn't as much of a trouble maker in this case as everyone though?

While this one incident doesn't do much to recast Zimmerman as a bad guy, it does tarnish his "squeaky clean" image a bit...enough to make you go, "Hmmm....maybe he does have a bit of a temper after all."
 
Re: Boy just can stay out of trouble

Objective Voice said:
My wife and I were saying this very same thing today when we heard the latest news. I think if those who supported Zimmerman were truly being honest, I think they'd have to admit that they gave George Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he was taunted as "the law abiding citizen who doesn't get angry, cares about his neighborhood, wants to be a peacekeeper and volunteers to minority children" whereas Trayvon was "a young punk kid who was always in trouble, did drugs and was a juvenile delinquent". In short, Zimmerman by all accounts was squeaky clean and Trayvon was a troubled teen. And quite honestly, I can't say I blame folks for having such instant impressions. But what some of us were trying to say all along was, "What if you got it wrong? What if the guy who came across as the good guy was really the bad guy? And what if the troubled teen wasn't as much of a trouble maker in this case as everyone though?

While this one incident doesn't do much to recast Zimmerman as a bad guy, it does tarnish his "squeaky clean" image a bit...enough to make you go, "Hmmm....maybe he does have a bit of a temper after all."
Click to expand...

And, if those of you--yes you--who were ready to lynch him were totally honest you would admit that it's "because a white dude killed a black dude"
 
Re: Boy just can stay out of trouble

Moderator's Warning:
Let's stick to the topic, which is not music.
 
There are several people who should be ashamed of themselves. They all jumped to conclusions without all the facts - what else is new. The story has since changed. No gun was involved at all. She sensationalized the incident but for what purpose?
 
RedAkston said:
There are several people who should be ashamed of themselves. They all jumped to conclusions without all the facts - what else is new. The story has since changed. No gun was involved at all. She sensationalized the incident but for what purpose?
Click to expand...

That has been one of the problems with the whole issue. It is not just the jumping to conclusions, but also the "facts" that keep on changing depending on which side you talk to. There are certain things that do seem somewhat obvious that have some evidence before all this started. Zim and wife had some domestic issues. yes, charges were not pressed, but they did have issues which involved the police. Now all on it's own i would say it could be nothing, but when you add it to things like zim's altercation with a police officer, his admitted approach of martin and confrontation with him, some clear dishonesty in regards to finance reporting with the law, and his poor decision making skills I would have to say the argument got out of control. Was there a gun? Who knows. Was there an altercation? I would believe it. Zim seems to put himself into these sorts of situations. It most certainly is not as dramatic as the news has made it out to be, and we have already seen them start walking back their crazy, but I can see him and his wife getting into a blow up argument over divorce and all this crap that has gone on. I could not see most people not getting into it in a divorce like this. He should have stayed away from treyvon, but when it is your spouse staying away is much different because to an extent you have to deal with them. I have to say if any of the zim supporters are claiming this is entirely fabricated you are insane. A divorce is hard enough, and these two have financial troubles, the media hounding them, they just got done with a trial, they have some legal troubles, and really if they are not fighting at this point I would have to think there was something wrong with them. There is no one that under control who is going to go through a divorce with this much crap going on silently and calmly. If he did hit someone I do not endorse it, but at least this one I can understand. If he did not hit her, kudos to him because it is a crazy and angering situation and he kept himself from hitting. If the cops cannot prove assault this should probably be let go entirely with just a report in case something happens in the future.

Of course, if the media wants to pay attention to the media whore the whore is just getting what they asked for.
 
I have not read the entire thread so i apologise in advance if this has already been stated.

I'm just really happy that Shellie and George Zimmerman do not have any children together. If she is prepared to lie and make false accusations, knowing full well the consequences of her actions, then i can't help but wonder if she would be the sort of "mother" who would use the children as pawns with complete disregard of keeping the best interest of the child at heart.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Zimmerman taken into custody in gun incident
Click to expand...

He is an over zealous wannabe cop who is drunk off his support....

This doesn't change the facts of the Martin case..... I had no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman would have shot anyone who gave him a reason to - he was just waiting for a legal reason to shoot someone, but he was in his legal means in doing such in the Martin case.

He thinks like a cop and acts like a cop......

Apparently this whole ordeal didn't register in his head - apparently it empowered him...
 
Re: George Zimmerman in Custody After Gun Incident

poweRob said:
I wonder what other dirty laundry, especially regarding the TM case might come out that they shared together if the animosity between them continues.
Click to expand...

It matters not.

Update: no weapons were found, no punches thrown and no charges will be filed. A simple pre-divorce technicality.
 
Serenity said:
I have not read the entire thread so i apologise in advance if this has already been stated.

I'm just really happy that Shellie and George Zimmerman do not have any children together. If she is prepared to lie and make false accusations, knowing full well the consequences of her actions, then i can't help but wonder if she would be the sort of "mother" who would use the children as pawns with complete disregard of keeping the best interest of the child at heart.
Click to expand...

I don't know about FL. but here in Texas, both parties can go to jail in a domestic disturbance. Ex Ms. Zimmerman is on probation. 8)

I too I'm glad they have no children.
 
Re: George Zimmerman in Custody After Gun Incident

poweRob said:
Well that tactic sure does seem to work for the pro-lifers.
Click to expand...

About as much relevance as belly button bacteria. At least try to stay on topic?
 
Re: George Zimmerman in Custody After Gun Incident

American said:
Oh so you want him dead. Sounds like you and him have some issues in common.
Click to expand...

Hardly - my post was sarcastic. Sorry it didn't come through very well.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yet it is easier for the woman to call the police, allege threats/acts of violence and have your unhappy man ass barred from entering the once blissful household. ;)
Click to expand...

Either spouse can leave a marriage and file for divorce..........
 
Sharona said:
Either spouse can leave a marriage and file for divorce..........
Click to expand...

No kidding? Should that be accompanied by one spouse being immediatley forced to find another place to live at the unilateral discretion of the other spouse?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom