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On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

Meaningless personal attack to discredit my point.

It was not an attack and it was not meaningless and it possibly helped to discredit your point...

Interesting how multiple attempts in my part to find this study online were unsuccessful.

Why is that interesting?

I'm not sure how one can conclude that heterosexuals engage in more deviant behavior than homosexuals considering that by definition homosexual engage in deviant behavior 100% of the time.

deviant
— adjective

deviating or departing from the norm; characterized by deviation: deviant social behavior.

Every person engages in deviant behaviour because there is no normal social behaviour. Whether it is Islam vs. Christianity, guys that like fat chicks, girls that like black guys, anal sex or basic socio-economic differences, there is no "norm. Your usage of the term is meant to cast a negative aspersion to who they are, nothing more.

My girlfriends and ex wife engaged in anal sex and sodomy... the first is not the norm.... the second? Probably. I guess that I am a deviant then. As are you. I could easily find something about you that is deviant.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

My comments are perfectly rational w/r to the issue outlined in the OP and I stand by them. Attempting to analogize the issue of homosexual marriage with the civil rights movement is beyond absurd. Why you would call me a "worthless bigot" merely for disagreeing with your stance on the issue is even more so and frankly, if you truly want to discuss bigotry, I suggest you take your comments to a mirror where they belong.

Homosexuality is nothing more than gross self indulgence. Period. Moreover, homosexuals are no more a class of people than are fans of a particular football team. They are not a race. They are people who have chosen, for whatever reason, to have sex with someone of their own gender. Such choices do not a warrant for "civil rights" make any more than someone's chosen preference for a certain team qualifies them for special consideration.

There's nothing remotely bigoted in that, unless it is the bigotry attendant with some of those who disagree, who think homosexuality IS some sort of warrant for special consideration by society beyond that which their deviant, self-indulgent behavior deserves.

Nope. Anti-SSM is bigotry, plain and simple. And yes, they are a class. A gender orientation class. A class that is being discriminated against.

...and it has been repeatedly shown that the majority of homosexuals did not "choose" to be so... That argument is as tired as, well... anything.
 
It was not an attack and it was not meaningless and it possibly helped to discredit your point...
Hardly



Why is that interesting?
. It makes me question it's existence. I'd like to read it. Can you attach a link?


Every person engages in deviant behaviour because there is no normal social behaviour.
Sounds like something those outside of normal try to convince themselves of to avoid the negative feelings associated with social rejection.

Whether it is Islam vs. Christianity, guys that like fat chicks, girls that like black guys, anal sex or basic socio-economic differences, there is no "norm. Your usage of the term is meant to cast a negative aspersion to who they are, nothing more.
.
No, just simply an observation of varying frequency of behaviors. An abstract you posted stated that heterosexuals participate in more deviant behaviors that homosexuals. I'm simply pointing out that on a frequency level within each group this claim is factually incorrect based on definitions.

Sexual normalcy is based on physiological (function and design) characteristics. Not on popular opinion.

My girlfriends and ex wife engaged in anal sex and sodomy... the first is not the norm.... the second? Probably. I guess that I am a deviant then.
. Ok... We are making progress as this is something we can perhaps agree on. :)
 
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That same logic was presented in the Loving case by the Commonwealth of Virginia (to paraphrase: Negros can marry Negros, White can marry Whites), how well did that work?


>>>>>

Based on what facts do you presume that race distinctions and designations of sexual behavior are the same?

Race is a verifiably innate characteristic and is constant and unchangeable.. Homosexuality is a behavior that is either being acted out or is not. There is no verifiable proof that it is an innate expression.

Race is an expression of a person's genetic ancestry while homosexuality is an expression of a person's desires.

I know it makes for convenient protection to latch onto the efforts of the civil liberties movement, but I don't see what homosexual behavior has to do with racism.
 
Based on what facts do you presume that race distinctions and designations of sexual behavior are the same?

Race is a verifiably innate characteristic and is constant and unchangeable.. Homosexuality is a behavior that is either being acted out or is not. There is no verifiable proof that it is an innate expression.

Race is an expression of a person's genetic ancestry while homosexuality is an expression of a person's desires.

I know it makes for convenient protection to latch onto the efforts of the civil liberties movement, but I don't see what homosexual behavior has to do with racism.

No one is saying they they are exactly the same. There are similarities in how they have been treated legally though. BTW there never has been a religion gene discovered. Religions also have been treated the same way as blacks and gays.
 
I've seen this stupid argument for years. It's dishonest. It omits the reason that most people marry someone else... which then demonstrates that it is not a fair and equal application.

Are you saying that heterosexuals and homosexuals are equals? Under what common designation do they fall that would grant a right to equal access to marriage?

1) You could say that both groups are human beings.

....but so are individuals over 18 and individuals under 18. Yet they are not granted equal access to marriage. So that alone doesn't grant equal rights to marriage. Pedophiles fall into this category.

2) you could claim that both groups are equally consenting adults.

...but that wouldn't alone grant equal rights to marriage because first degree relatives are in this category and can't get married either.

3) you could claim that two homosexuals are in love like two heterosexuals would be.

..... Yet love alone can't grant equal rights to marriage. You and your (insert family member/pet/innate object here) may feel you are in love but cannot get married.

4) you can claim that two heterosexuals can create a loving family unit and raise children who need a home.

...yet again, polygamists and 1st degree relatives among others could fall into this category.

5) you could claim that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality in that each is simply a sexual orientation one has the option to choose from.

...yet orientation is simply an affinity of one thing for another. Homosexuality is a behavior. If you were to infer that homosexuality is an orientation then you would also have to concede that other orientations are on equal ground with homosexuality based on the simple category of alternative orientation. This would include incest, beastiality, and pedophilia. All of which are sexual orientations that without accompanied behavior are legal.

So, it appears that one cannot claim a right to marriage by simply being two (or more) consenting human beings (even of adult age) of a certain orientation who are in love and feel they can raise a healthy family. ...unless you are willing to grant marriage rights to a host of other groups such as polygamists, first degree relatives, pedophiles, animal lovers (you know the kind I'm talking about :) ) etc.

This is why it's not a slippery slope.

Here's another premise. Heterosexuals are different than homosexuals on a basic concept. All people (aside from genetic malformations like hermaphroditism) are physically heterosexuals. That is they are either physiologically male or female with corresponding parts. These parts are physiologically intended to attract to and complement the parts of the opposite sex. This is the intended design of our biology in order to propagate our species. Heterosexual behavior is the term given to this congruence. Homosexual behavior is a deviation from this and is an opposite behavior than our physiological biology intended. Heterosexual behavior is a congruence with our biology and homosexual behavior is an incongruence with our biology.
If our biology afforded a pathway for homosexuality to create genetic offspring then society could consider these two things simple sexual alternatives. But they are not.

Heterosexuality is a different entity completely than homosexual behavior.

So I don't see how separate but equal is even an argument here as homosexuality is not equal with heterosexuality.

Therefore if heterosexuals create a social construct called marriage it is within their prerogative to define it as being between a man and a woman. (On the way that any group rationally discriminates it's commonalities for participation) Outside groups have no legitimate argument to force their way into it without also conceding the door to Pandora's box.


I'm looking for a real discussion on this subject.
 
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No one is saying they they are exactly the same. There are similarities in how they have been treated legally though.
What are these similarities you are referring to?

BTW there never has been a religion gene discovered.
. Nobody is arguing for one religious belief system to have the "right" to marry another religious belief system. Interestingly enough though, there are heterosexual genes. They are described as XY for male and XX for female.

Religions also have been treated the same way as blacks and gays.
Exactly what similarities between religious belief systems and "blacks and gays" is relevant to the discussion about defining the word marriage?
 
What are these similarities you are referring to?

Did you miss where I said legally?


. Nobody is arguing for one religious belief system to have the "right" to marry another religious belief system. Interestingly enough though, there are heterosexual genes. They are described as XY for male and XX for female.

Those are chromosomes not genes


Exactly what similarities between religious belief systems and "blacks and gays" is relevant to the discussion about defining the word marriage?

You missed the legally part again i see.
 
Those are chromosomes not genes
They are chromosomes containing genes for the phenotypic expression of heterosexual sex characteristics. XX for female and XY for male.

Will this answer suffice or are you going to try to move the goal posts again?
 
You missed the legally part again i see.

Are you unable to provide more specific examples? I'm not baiting you for argument sake. I'm curious what specific legal struggles blacks and people of certain religious beliefs share with homosexuals in your opinion.
 
They are chromosomes containing genes for the phenotypic expression of heterosexual sex characteristics. XX for female and XY for male.

Will this answer suffice or are you going to try to move the goal posts again?

I never moved the goal posts. And sometimes people turn out gay XX or XY chromosomes. Whoop tee do. Sometime people get green eyes, are left handed, etc....

Why do you think heterosexuals are a class above homosexuals?
 
Are you unable to provide more specific examples? I'm not baiting you for argument sake. I'm curious what specific legal struggles blacks and people of certain religious beliefs share with homosexuals in your opinion.

They all have been discriminated against by the state through out history in one way or another to the point it can be very well documented as systemic.
 
I never moved the goal posts. And sometimes people turn out gay XX or XY chromosomes. Whoop tee do. Sometime people get green eyes, are left handed, etc....
with respect to our species, phenotypic sex characteristics can only present heterosexually in terms of either a male or female. It makes sense that the biological intention of orientation would correlate as heterosexual. Leaving 2 possible scenarios: 1) homosexual (and other orientations) are a genetic defect or, 2) they are socially/environmentally acquired. So I see (pun intended) no logical link to your analogy of phenotypic eye color expression. Other than your need to marginalize the etiology of sexual orientation.

A more accurate analogy would be heterosexual expression is to eyes with effective vision as homosexual expression is to blindness. The analogy holds true with respect to function/intention.

Why do you think heterosexuals are a class above homosexuals?
I never made such a claim. Don't build straw men.
 
They all have been discriminated against by the state through out history in one way or another to the point it can be very well documented as systemic.

This leads me to believe that you are not going to cite a specific example. I'm hoping that's not true. I'd like to talk more about this.
 
This leads me to believe that you are not going to cite a specific example. I'm hoping that's not true. I'd like to talk more about this.

It is kinda a broad thing yanno. We can talk about Romans tossing Christians to the lions, slavery, laws criminalizing homosexuality, etc.
 
with respect to our species, phenotypic sex characteristics can only present heterosexually in terms of either a male or female. It makes sense that the biological intention of orientation would correlate as heterosexual. Leaving 2 possible scenarios: 1) homosexual (and other orientations) are a genetic defect or, 2) they are socially/environmentally acquired. So I see (pun intended) no logical link to your analogy of phenotypic eye color expression. Other than your need to marginalize the etiology of sexual orientation.


You are jumping to conclusions and have gone to great lengths to sound as if authoritative using academic language. Homosexuality is not a disease nor a defect.



I never made such a claim. Don't build straw men.

When you are trying label homosexuals as diseased and or defective it is obvious you see heterosexuals a superior.
 
Nope. Anti-SSM is bigotry, plain and simple.
...says those who would promote homosexual marriage.
And yes, they are a class.
A class of self-indulgent individuals perhaps.
A gender orientation class.
A class of self-indulgent individuals whose self-indulgence is characterized by their choice in sex partners.
A class that is being discriminated against.
A class marked as distinctive for their peculiar behaviors, yes.
...and it has been repeatedly shown that the majority of homosexuals did not "choose" to be so... That argument is as tired as, well... anything.
That's demonstrably absurd; it's a lie containing no more truth than speeders claiming they speed because they have no choice. One might legitimately argue emotional or psychological trauma as a reason, but in the end it boils down to choice, a choice to give in to self-indulgent urges; and rather than acknowledge the truth, they've fabricated a web of lies to rationalize their shame - rather than be ashamed they've become proud of their deviant self-indulgences - so proud that now they want their behaviors given special treatment by society; they want - nay they demand society "accept" their deviant behavior as "normal" and they demand society treat them as "normal" who engage in such deviant behaviors.

And admittedly, society at large - including people like yourself - has bought their lies, accepted behavior as "normal" which is deviant, accepted self-indulgence as a good thing - regardless how depraved the indulgences are allowed to go.

Now, I call that depraved -- both the grossly self-indulgent behaviors as well as the societal acceptance of the grossly self-indulgent behaviors. You choose to call that bigotry. Only that's not your choice. Instead you made the choice to call that which is bad, good; that which is deviant, normal; that which is self-indulgent, "loving." You've abdicated your ability to choose as a consequence; you must call it bigotry. You have no choice. By yielding to their lies, by accepting them and denying the truth, you've become as self-indulgent as they - and how bitter the irony must be once you admit you too had "no choice."
 
Based on what facts do you presume that race distinctions and designations of sexual behavior are the same?

Race is a verifiably innate characteristic and is constant and unchangeable.. Homosexuality is a behavior that is either being acted out or is not. There is no verifiable proof that it is an innate expression.

Race is an expression of a person's genetic ancestry while homosexuality is an expression of a person's desires.

I know it makes for convenient protection to latch onto the efforts of the civil liberties movement, but I don't see what homosexual behavior has to do with racism.


#1 - Whether homosexuality is an innate genetic characteristic or not is irrelevant to the issue. ALL citizens a due equal protection of the laws and no group is to be denied such treatment unless there is a compelling government reason for such unequal treatment. When discriminatory laws are formulated in a capricious and invidious manner such laws can be challenged and the government then has the burden to demonstrate a valid compelling interest has to why such discrimination should continue. (And neither "tradition" or "My religion doesn't agree with it" are valid secular reasons.) When such a basis is challenged the comparison then is make on like situated groups to explain why one group is excluded (illegal) and the other group is included (legal).

So here is your chance to answer a question I've been asking for well over a decade. To date no one has been able to supply a cogent answer as to why law abiding, tax paying, US Citizen, non-family, infertile, consenting, adults in a different gender relationship are allowed to Civilly Marry (in all states), yet law abiding, tax paying, US Citizen, non-family, infertile, consenting, adults in a same gender relationship are allowed to Civilly Marry (in most states)?


**************************************************


#2 - Please cite any Civil Law banning Civil Marriage based on sexual behavior. Last time I checked each and every one of them banned Same-sex Civil Marriage based on the gender composition of the parties involved and gender is based on genetics and therefore is an "innate" characteristic.

And no, it is not a quality of the "individual" that is the measurement. In other words because a lesbian is allowed to marry a man, then she is treated consistently under the law. If the basis was the "individual only", then the Loving case would have been decided in Virginia's favor since both Mr. Loving and Ms. Jeter (to later become Mr. & Mrs. Loving) could both Civilly Marry, just not each other. The measurement was how they were treated as a couple.



>>>>
 
#1 - Whether homosexuality is an innate genetic characteristic or not is irrelevant to the issue. ALL citizens a due equal protection of the laws and no group is to be denied such treatment unless there is a compelling government reason for such unequal treatment.
I don't know how you can claim genetics are irrelevant to the issue when the fact is that it is the very basis of the homosexual argument and claim for "equal rights."

Yes, all citizens are due equal protection under the law. However, the claim by homosexuals is that homosexuals haven't the same "rights" allotted to others - vis-a-vis the right to marry and by extension the right to all the benefits enjoyed by married men and women.

They claim they deserve such rights, that their behavior, which has earned them the legitimate title of homosexuals, should not be the source of their identity since their behavior is merely the product of what they are, not its genesis. The contend they engage in homosexual behavior because they are homosexuals; which is a 180 degree swing from the truth, which is that they are homosexuals because of their behavior. So genetics are fundamental to the homosexual argument.
When discriminatory laws are formulated in a capricious and invidious manner such laws can be challenged and the government then has the burden to demonstrate a valid compelling interest has to why such discrimination should continue. (And neither "tradition" or "My religion doesn't agree with it" are valid secular reasons.) When such a basis is challenged the comparison then is make on like situated groups to explain why one group is excluded (illegal) and the other group is included (legal). < Snip >
"Discriminatory laws?" "Capricious and invidious manner??" Good grief.

When the basis for the claim of special rights is invalid - as is most definitely the case with homosexuals, the passing of laws that do not recognize such claims are not discriminatory, let alone capricious or invidious.
So here is your chance to answer a question I've been asking for well over a decade. To date no one has been able to supply a cogent answer as to why law abiding, tax paying, US Citizen, non-family, infertile, consenting, adults in a different gender relationship are allowed to Civilly Marry (in all states), yet law abiding, tax paying, US Citizen, non-family, infertile, consenting, adults in a same gender relationship are allowed to Civilly Marry (in most states)?
For the simple reason that most states do not recognize deviant behavior (homosexuality) as a valid excuse to marry. Is that cogent enough for you?
 
I don't know how you can claim genetics are irrelevant to the issue when the fact is that it is the very basis of the homosexual argument and claim for "equal rights."

I'm saying genetics is irrelevant to the legal standard applied under the law. Whether homosexuality is genetic or not is an interesting debate and, realistically, there are arguments to be made either way from an academic standpoint. What I'm saying they are irrelevant has a function of law and it doesn't matter if homosexuality is a "choice" or "genetic".

That government entities to single out, as a function of law, homosexuals for unequal treatment there needs to be a valid compelling reason.


Yes, all citizens are due equal protection under the law. However, the claim by homosexuals is that homosexuals haven't the same "rights" allotted to others - vis-a-vis the right to marry and by extension the right to all the benefits enjoyed by married men and women.

Barring valid reasons, they do have the same rights, however those rights are being denied on many places.


They claim they deserve such rights, that their behavior, which has earned them the legitimate title of homosexuals, should not be the source of their identity since their behavior is merely the product of what they are, not its genesis. The contend they engage in homosexual behavior because they are homosexuals; which is a 180 degree swing from the truth, which is that they are homosexuals because of their behavior. So genetics are fundamental to the homosexual argument.

Feel free to provide an example of any laws limiting homosexuals from marrying based on "behavior", but be prepared for a long search you won't find any. The laws are written in terms of gender. The laws say, in most states, that a man can marry a woman, but a woman cannot marry another woman. That is a gender based classification not a "behavior" based classification. A behavior would be, no two individual can Civilly Marry if they participate in oral/genital sex. However if they (i.e. the legislature) tried to define who and who is not allowed to Civilly Marry based on the requirement of penis/vaginal intercourse as the exclusive means of allowable intimate relationships - there would be a lot of heterosexuals that wouldn't be allowed to Civilly Marry either.


"Discriminatory laws?" "Capricious and invidious manner??" Good grief.

CAPRICIOUS: not logical or reasonable

INVIDIOUS: of a kind to cause harm or resentment


Yep.


When the basis for the claim of special rights is invalid - as is most definitely the case with homosexuals, the passing of laws that do not recognize such claims are not discriminatory, let alone capricious or invidious.

#1 - No "special rights" are being requested. We involved with different-sex Civil Marriages are the ones that currently receive "special rights" because of our Civil Marriage. To allow same-sex couples the same legal option as we have is not granting them "special rights" it allowing them to have "equal rights". No one it taking anything away from different-sex Civil Marriages. No same-sex Civil Marriages will have anything not already available to different-sex Civil Marriages. And at the end of the day two heterosexual dudes or two heterosexual women could Civilly Marry and have the "same rights". So no, they are not getting "special rights".

#2 - The passage those laws was discriminatory in nature as they were enacted specifically to deny equal access to Civil Marriage to homosexuals by defining Civil Marriage in terms of couple gender compositions that would exclude homosexuals. "DISCRIMINATION: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually ". The laws do not evaluate the individual, the provide broad exclusion based on a category. The very definition of discrimination.


For the simple reason that most states do not recognize deviant behavior (homosexuality) as a valid excuse to marry. Is that cogent enough for you?

No, it's a dodge. You present not a legal argument, you present a (to paraphrase) "because homosexuals are iky argument". The simple reason that most states did not recognize deviant behavior (interracial marriage) as a valid excuse to marry. The fact that it was considered "deviant" as in outside the acceptable social norm, was not considered a valid reason to uphold such discriminatory laws.


>>>>
 
I'm saying genetics is irrelevant to the legal standard applied under the law. Whether homosexuality is genetic or not is an interesting debate and, realistically, there are arguments to be made either way from an academic standpoint. What I'm saying they are irrelevant has a function of law and it doesn't matter if homosexuality is a "choice" or "genetic".
It matters to the homosexual, for that is - again - the basis on which they are contesting various laws they deem as "unfair."

That government entities to single out, as a function of law, homosexuals for unequal treatment there needs to be a valid compelling reason.
Please provide an example where the government has singled out, targeted homosexuals for unequal treatment, let alone proceeded to treat them so. I suspect the only "examples" you'll generate will be those that prohibit homosexuals from marrying and/or enjoying the same benefits society confers on normal married couples. In that case, the government isn't "singling out" homosexuals, nor is it "targeting" homosexuals so as to treat them unequally. At the very worst, they are nothing more than laws clarifying the intent and purpose of laws already on the books - laws which would never be necessary were it not for those individuals presuming to be discriminated against by virtue of their sexual behaviors.

The homosexual lobby is fighting hard to legitimize their behavior in society's eyes, to remove the stigma of its deviancy and perversity, to enable them to engage in their behavior without any stigma, without any shame. This is but the latest battleground in that fight. Nothing more. It is a "rights" issue only because they want it to be. Period.

#1 - No "special rights" are being requested. We involved with different-sex Civil Marriages are the ones that currently receive "special rights" because of our Civil Marriage. To allow same-sex couples the same legal option as we have is not granting them "special rights" it allowing them to have "equal rights". No one it taking anything away from different-sex Civil Marriages. No same-sex Civil Marriages will have anything not already available to different-sex Civil Marriages. And at the end of the day two heterosexual dudes or two heterosexual women could Civilly Marry and have the "same rights". So no, they are not getting "special rights".
Ahem - marriage benefits received by man and woman, husband and wife are by definition "special rights." They are special by virtue of them being different than rights and privileges we give to many others in society - e.g. singles. So to say homosexuals who want these same rights aren't seeking "special rights" but "equal rights" is absolutely absurd.

#2 - The passage those laws was discriminatory in nature as they were enacted specifically to deny equal access to Civil Marriage to homosexuals by defining Civil Marriage in terms of couple gender compositions that would exclude homosexuals. "DISCRIMINATION: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually ". The laws do not evaluate the individual, the provide broad exclusion based on a category. The very definition of discrimination.
A distinction without meaning. Marriage benefit laws are, by definition discriminatory - and always have been! By your own definition, the evaluate categorically rather than individually - SINGLES being the perfect example for those laws have always discriminated between singles and marrieds.

Now homosexuals - whose ulterior purposes have more to do with legitimizing their behavior than securing special rights - are crying "Foul!" because they're running head long into the same "discrimination" that singles have faced since the inception of these laws. No - your "legal" argument is irrelevant.

No, it's a dodge. You present not a legal argument, you present a (to paraphrase) "because homosexuals are iky argument". The simple reason that most states did not recognize deviant behavior (interracial marriage) as a valid excuse to marry. The fact that it was considered "deviant" as in outside the acceptable social norm, was not considered a valid reason to uphold such discriminatory laws.
To you it may be a dodge, but the simple fact of the matter is that putting forth two lengthy lists of identical adjectives describing two "couples" where the lists differ by but one adjective does not a valid argument make. Moreover --- when that one adjective is the sole differentiator of the two "couples" and deals strictly with homosexual behavior, you're not only not advancing your argument but you're hurting it. And you're CERTAINLY not doing it any favors from a legal perspective either.

Homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior. It has NOTHING to do with "societal norms" as if society could capriciously decree what is normal and what isn't. And to compare deviant sexual behavior with interracial marriage is to take us back to my argument at the very beginning of this thread. It's absurd on its face. So you have your answer - and I daresay you've received it many times in the past ten years you've been asking it - but I daresay you'll never acknowledge the cogency of any argument that deviates from your own - which isn't a little ironic if you think about it.
 
I'm shocked that gay marriage gets this kind of attention on a thread. 100 pages of responses and counterpoints? Why do people care this much?
 
I'm shocked that gay marriage gets this kind of attention on a thread. 100 pages of responses and counterpoints? Why do people care this much?
Probably because homosexuals and their friends are pushing so hard to remove the stigma and shame of the perverse and deviant behavior - and people are pushing back as hard or harder.
 
Probably because homosexuals and their friends are pushing so hard to remove the stigma and shame of the perverse and deviant behavior - and people are pushing back as hard or harder.

Still don't understand why people get so spooled up about this subject which has a minimal impact on the vast majority of people against it. So many other issues to address, this is really the least of our concerns. There are a lot of other things you would label as perverse and deviant that are quite legal, and yet receive a fraction of the attention that this does. If it doesn't effect me, then I really don't care what they do.
 
Still don't understand why people get so spooled up about this subject which has a minimal impact on the vast majority of people against it. So many other issues to address, this is really the least of our concerns. There are a lot of other things you would label as perverse and deviant that are quite legal, and yet receive a fraction of the attention that this does. If it doesn't effect me, then I really don't care what they do.
Well it has more impact than you might think.
 
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