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On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

the issue is getting it back to the supreme court. I know it is a hot topic but we haven't seen a major abortion case in the SC since Roe vs. Wade, and that is certainly a hot topic. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the SC rule that barring people from marriage due to sexual preference is illegal, but I just don't see it happening universally for a longer period of time.

i think its gonna happen, its almost bound to now with the fall of doma and the IRS ruling

some hospital is going to deny visitation to a same sex couple or deny them spousal privileges. Or some hospital is going to not notify next of kin or spouse.
maybe even something negative like some spouse will cheat in another state, is it cheating?
of a spouse will sadly die in another state and that state will try to keep the car or something dumb

something is gonna happen to push it IMO

some of theses states and people are too dumb

you could be right but im putting my money on 5 years
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Did ya notice she is from Texas;)

what are you implying lol
hey san antonio just passed some equal gay rights legislation.
see theres hope ;)
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

i think its gonna happen, its almost bound to now with the fall of doma and the IRS ruling

some hospital is going to deny visitation to a same sex couple or deny them spousal privileges. Or some hospital is going to not notify next of kin or spouse.
maybe even something negative like some spouse will cheat in another state, is it cheating?
of a spouse will sadly die in another state and that state will try to keep the car or something dumb

something is gonna happen to push it IMO

some of theses states and people are too dumb

you could be right but im putting my money on 5 years

I don't disagree that there could be cases that might reach the SC, but in reality the SC shies away from making the ruling. If they REALLY wanted to they could have shot down Californias ban on SSM and set the precedent. Alas, they said they did not have the jurisdiction and sent it back down to the California SC which in turn shot it down. That alone tells me they are not ready to make a national statement that anti- gay marriage laws will not be accepted. do agree there are some very dumb and naive people in this country though :d
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

what are you implying lol
hey san antonio just passed some equal gay rights legislation.
see theres hope ;)

We're not all lonney tune conservatives down here!
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

To re-define the word "sodomy" as something straight people do in a loving and committed relationship is what's asinine and absurd. Where did you come up with that nonsensical definition anyway?

You are correct though in defining it in terms of oral and anal sex - and here's why (from an answer I've already provided in a thread you started elsewhere):

The word "sodomite" comes from a narrative in the bible, specifically from Genesis 19:4f - The word "sodomy" generally refers to the behavior of those men of Sodom who wanted to have sex with ("know") the two men visiting Lot. The bible doesn't use the word "sodomy" per se; but the behavior is quite clear - men wanting to have sex with other men - and it is regarded variously in the bible as "worthless," "wicked," "exceedingly wicked," "abominable" and so forth...

In that example, the two men with whom the Sodomite men wanted to have sex were angels, sent to rescue Lot and his family from God's judgment on Sodom.

There's another, similar example in the bible - in Judges 19, where a Levite was visiting a town in Gibeah and staying with someone there:
Same scenario, the men of the city wanted to have sex with the Levite priest visiting Gibeah.

The outcome of that incident was a civil war that wiped out the tribe of Benjamin.

So "sodomy" is a specific reference to men of the town of Sodom wanting to have sex with other men. Without going into the sordid details, the various ways men can have sex with one another are rather limited - but oral and anal are certainly included.

Suggesting a man and a woman engaging in oral or anal sex is "sodomy" is an intentional re-definition of the word - which purpose is little more than a vain attempt to pretend that oral and anal sex by two men (i.e. sodomy) is somehow "normal" because men and women can engage in oral and anal sex too.

So you are completely in the wrong - sodomy most definitely and conclusively is sex between two or more men; exclusively sex between two or more men.

You are simply just soooo wrong on so many levels:

First, many many homosexuals are in the same type of beautiful, loving committed relationships are heterosexuals.

Second, Sodomy is not exclusive to gays. I would bet that the vast majority of Heterosexual couples engage in sodomy as well.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

I don't disagree that there could be cases that might reach the SC, but in reality the SC shies away from making the ruling. If they REALLY wanted to they could have shot down Californias ban on SSM and set the precedent. Alas, they said they did not have the jurisdiction and sent it back down to the California SC which in turn shot it down. That alone tells me they are not ready to make a national statement that anti- gay marriage laws will not be accepted. do agree there are some very dumb and naive people in this country though :d

well i agree they do get gun shy on certain things but i think a case is gonna present itself where they have no choice

i figured they would side step prop 8 because it simply wasnt direct enough, they had an out and they took it.

but all we need is one direct case, with the precedence set that marriage is a right, DOMA falling, IRS rulings, and state supreme court precedence ruling banning are a violation of equality the stage is set.

is gonna be a big old melon ball right down the middle of the plate

hey maybe im too optimistic but hell just a couple years ago i would have said 10-15 years and i didnt expect 13 states to have it by now or doma to fall.
hell 15 years ago i didnt think id even get close to seeing it in my life time i thought only my daughter would.

So my outlook as changed and its positive :D
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

well i agree they do get gun shy on certain things but i think a case is gonna present itself where they have no choice

i figured they would side step prop 8 because it simply wasnt direct enough, they had an out and they took it.

but all we need is one direct case, with the precedence set that marriage is a right, DOMA falling, IRS rulings, and state supreme court precedence ruling banning are a violation of equality the stage is set.

is gonna be a big old melon ball right down the middle of the plate

hey maybe im too optimistic but hell just a couple years ago i would have said 10-15 years and i didnt expect 13 states to have it by now or doma to fall.
hell 15 years ago i didnt think id even get close to seeing it in my life time i thought only my daughter would.

So my outlook as changed and its positive :D

I see what you are saying totally. I'm in the same boat as you, hoping that something will present itself and somebody will have the balls to make a change. Either way at least we know it is just a matter of time now, just depends on how much time! :)
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

You are simply just soooo wrong on so many levels:

Second, Sodomy is not exclusive to gays. I would bet that the vast majority of Heterosexual couples engage in sodomy as well.
Did you even read his post? Maybe it was it too long, or too informative, too detailed, too complex?
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Moderator's Warning:
Going to remind people, one last time, to cut out the baiting, trolling, and flaming. If someone else is doing it and you respond in kind understand you're just as guilty of breaking the rules and you too will potentially suffer consequences. STICK TO THE TOPIC and the arguments people are presenting. Your commentary about other posters aren't needed and aren't welcome
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

I see what you are saying totally. I'm in the same boat as you, hoping that something will present itself and somebody will have the balls to make a change. Either way at least we know it is just a matter of time now, just depends on how much time! :)
Yes, it will happen lets see, lets all synchronize our watches...it will happen at exactly five four three twooooone...at a half past an icicle when hell finally freezes over...be real convenient as by then there will be some rather large pigs that may also be flying so you can probably get a great deal on a flight there, coach, pretty cheap...

Still gotta long ways to go fellas, especially now that we understand that you folks were never in it for just the tolerance, that was not good enough, and since you almost all, and nearly every single one, do not extend that same tolerance, just get mean, degrading and nasty when we say no further... well, we are reconsidering our own tolerance, speaking of the nasty.

I think they call what we are arriving at a "tipping point", just a few more y'all's pushy straws just gonna crack that poor camel's back. 37 states with either constitutional bans or statutes saying marriage is one man one woman.
 
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Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Did you even read his post? Maybe it was it too long, or too informative, too detailed, too complex?

Yes, I read his post. That's what I was responding to. The problem with the post is that is was simply wrong. Something can have a lot of details, but if the details are all wrong, then the post is as well.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Moderator's Warning:
Going to remind people, one last time, to cut out the baiting, trolling, and flaming. If someone else is doing it and you respond in kind understand you're just as guilty of breaking the rules and you too will potentially suffer consequences. STICK TO THE TOPIC and the arguments people are presenting. Your commentary about other posters aren't needed and aren't welcome

I think I gay love you.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

< Snip >
The word "sodomite" comes from a narrative in the bible, specifically from Genesis 19:4f - The word "sodomy" generally refers to the behavior of those men of Sodom who wanted to have sex with ("know") the two men visiting Lot. The bible doesn't use the word "sodomy" per se; but the behavior is quite clear - men wanting to have sex with other men - and it is regarded variously in the bible as "worthless," "wicked," "exceedingly wicked," "abominable" and so forth...

In that example, the two men with whom the Sodomite men wanted to have sex were angels, sent to rescue Lot and his family from God's judgment on Sodom.

There's another, similar example in the bible - in Judges 19, where a Levite was visiting a town in Gibeah and staying with someone there:
Same scenario, the men of the city wanted to have sex with the Levite priest visiting Gibeah.

The outcome of that incident was a civil war that wiped out the tribe of Benjamin.

So "sodomy" is a specific reference to men of the town of Sodom wanting to have sex with other men. Without going into the sordid details, the various ways men can have sex with one another are rather limited - but oral and anal are certainly included.

Suggesting a man and a woman engaging in oral or anal sex is "sodomy" is an intentional re-definition of the word - which purpose is little more than a vain attempt to pretend that oral and anal sex by two men (i.e. sodomy) is somehow "normal" because men and women can engage in oral and anal sex too.

So you are completely in the wrong - sodomy most definitely and conclusively is sex between two or more men; exclusively sex between two or more men.

You are simply just soooo wrong on so many levels:

First, many many homosexuals are in the same type of beautiful, loving committed relationships are heterosexuals.
Arguable, but totally irrelevant.

Second, Sodomy is not exclusive to gays. I would bet that the vast majority of Heterosexual couples engage in sodomy as well.
You would bet? :doh That's not exactly a statement of confidence, disneydude.

Yes, I read his post. That's what I was responding to. The problem with the post is that is was simply wrong. Something can have a lot of details, but if the details are all wrong, then the post is as well.
Merely asserting something is wrong, doesn't make it wrong.

Fact: Sodom exists as a name in the English language solely because of its mention in the bible, ergo any meaning applied to the name necessarily comes from its mention in the bible.
Fact: I provided that meaning. See also Genesis 19.
Fact: I provided a similar incident where virtually the exact same behavior occurred. See Judges 19.

You assert that is "simply wrong." Ok - why? Show us where that's wrong. What details were wrong? Any one will do.
Since the narrative of Sodom and the behavior of its men originates from the bible, and you seem to disagree with that, asserting "sodomy is not exclusive to gays," perhaps there are other biblical references you can cite where such behavior can be ascribed to heterosexuals as well, thus proving your point?
 
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Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Arguable, but totally irrelevant.

You would bet? :doh That's not exactly a statement of confidence, disneydude.

Merely asserting something is wrong, doesn't make it wrong.

Fact: Sodom exists as a name in the English language solely because of its mention in the bible, ergo any meaning applied to the name necessarily comes from its mention in the bible.
Fact: I provided that meaning. See also Genesis 19.
Fact: I provided a similar incident where virtually the exact same behavior occurred. See Judges 19.

You assert that is "simply wrong." Ok - why? Show us where that's wrong. What details were wrong? Any one will do.
Since the narrative of Sodom and the behavior of its men is in the bible, and you seem to disagree with that, asserting "sodomy is not exclusive to gays," perhaps there are other biblical references you can cite where such behavior can be ascribed to heterosexuals as well, thus proving your point?
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah had a hell of a lot more to do with than homosexual behavior. You either don't read the bible much or you belong to one of those churches like Westboro Baptist who like to cafeteria pick and manipulate in order to fit their political agenda. Sodomy refers to heterosexual conduct as well. You need to go back and read the story of Sodom and Gommorah if you are going to try to make such claims.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Yes, I read his post. That's what I was responding to. The problem with the post is that is was simply wrong. Something can have a lot of details, but if the details are all wrong, then the post is as well.
You ignored practically all of it and what you do address is meaningless in response to what he detailed, did not even seem as if you had actually read his post. You first point had absolutely nothing to do with the post quoted. Then, if you disagree with his "details"...then pick them out one by one and destroy them best you can, if you can. If you, on the other hand, cannot or will not, one has to suppose he is mostly correct as your ignoring the problem does not solve the problem nor even give one pause to really think...just seems like you either did not read his post, did not understand his post or were overcome by his post and have no real response, so you dodge or simply ignore what he had to say.

I would think, and I am no bible scholar here, since we do seem to get the noun and its accompanying verb, the name of sodomy from the the biblical story regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, that he has a valid point as to what sodomy truly is and has been. That it was originally considered only to be between two or more men... general usage may have become imprecise in the intervening years, you could argue that, but to just ignore it running right past it and saying it is wrong on so many levels without even anything more than a head fake in that direction as a rebuttal....?? Seems suspect to me.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

You ignored practically all of it and what you do address is meaningless in response to what he detailed, did not even seem as if you had actually read his post. You first point had absolutely nothing to do with the post quoted. Then, if you disagree with his "details"...then pick them out one by one and destroy them best you can, if you can. If you, on the other hand, cannot or will not, one has to suppose he is mostly correct as your ignoring the problem does not solve the problem nor even give one pause to really think...just seems like you either did not read his post, did not understand his post or were overcome by his post and have no real response, so you dodge or simply ignore what he had to say.

I would think, and I am no bible scholar here, since we do seem to get the noun and its accompanying verb, the name of sodomy from the the biblical story regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, that he has a valid point as to what sodomy truly is and has been. That it was originally considered only to be between two men... general usage may have become imprecise in the intervening years, you could argue that, but to just ignore it running right past it and saying it is wrong on so many levels without even anything more than a head fake in that direction as a rebuttal....?? Seems suspect to me.

I will tell you the same thing that I told him. If you are going to cite the story of Sodom and Gommorah, they I suggest that you actually read it.....and not rely on some right-wing political perverted version of the story spun to fit a political agenda. The story of Sodom and Gommorah has a homosexual component to it, but the homosexual component is one of the smallest parts of the story. It is essentially mentioned in passing. Read the bible and then get back to us.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

I will tell you the same thing that I told him. If you are going to cite the story of Sodom and Gommorah, they I suggest that you actually read it.....and not rely on some right-wing political perverted version of the story spun to fit a political agenda. The story of Sodom and Gommorah has a homosexual component to it, but the homosexual component is one of the smallest parts of the story. It is essentially mentioned in passing. Read the bible and then get back to us.
But it was the homosexual component specifically that we are speaking of, where the term sodomy and sodomized comes from...what do the other parts have to do with that?

If you are unable to explain that fairly succinctly, I would suggest that you probably have no real point...it would have to revolve around, to be pertinent, if women were having sex in the same way as, or with, the men from Sodom... something along those lines to cogently adhere to our topic here.
 
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37 states have banned gay marriage. we will see what happens with them.

yes i know, that makes me happy actually because its that exact banning that is going to help establish equality and stop the bigoted discrimination.

in the cases that were pushed to state supreme courts banning were ruled to violet equality and to be discrimination.
Its sweet irony actually, the ignorance and fear that lead to those banning will be the very thing that allows equal rights.
 
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Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

But it was the homosexual component specifically that we are speaking of, where the term sodomy and sodomized comes from...what do the other parts have to do with that?

If you are unable to explain that fairly succinctly, I would suggest that you probably have no real point...it would have to revolve around, to be pertinent, if women were having sex in the same way as, or with, the men from Sodom... something along those lines to cogently adhere to our topic here.

Sodomy does not refer only to homosexual conduct...THAT is the whole point.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah had a hell of a lot more to do with than homosexual behavior. You either don't read the bible much or you belong to one of those churches like Westboro Baptist who like to cafeteria pick and manipulate in order to fit their political agenda. Sodomy refers to heterosexual conduct as well. You need to go back and read the story of Sodom and Gommorah if you are going to try to make such claims.
Again, baseless assertions with absolutely nothing to back them up. If, as you assert, the story I cited isn't talking about homosexual behavior - please enlighten us as to what you think it means. And please, no more asinine ad-hominems or inane allusions to the Westboro Baptist church, political agendas, or grade school cafeterias.

I've read the story - umpteen times. Have you? I've cited it, quoted it, twice now. All you've done is bluster "you're wrong." Give us something more than baseless claims with zero backup.
 
37 states have banned gay marriage. we will see what happens with them.

They are learning the error of their ways. The dominoes are falling faster and faster. I told you two years ago NP that this was going to happen. Why act all surprised now. You should have seen this coming.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Sodomy does not refer only to homosexual conduct...THAT is the whole point.
No, THAT is a baseless assertion.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Sodomy does not refer only to homosexual conduct...THAT is the whole point.
The point is that he says it does, gives biblical references, you say it doesn't, give nothing as a source...as stated before, I will go with what seems more plausible.
 
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