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Thread: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

  1. #981

    On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I've seen this stupid argument for years. It's dishonest. It omits the reason that most people marry someone else... which then demonstrates that it is not a fair and equal application.
    Are you saying that heterosexuals and homosexuals are equals? Under what common designation do they fall that would grant a right to equal access to marriage?

    1) You could say that both groups are human beings.

    ....but so are individuals over 18 and individuals under 18. Yet they are not granted equal access to marriage. So that alone doesn't grant equal rights to marriage. Pedophiles fall into this category.

    2) you could claim that both groups are equally consenting adults.

    ...but that wouldn't alone grant equal rights to marriage because first degree relatives are in this category and can't get married either.

    3) you could claim that two homosexuals are in love like two heterosexuals would be.

    ..... Yet love alone can't grant equal rights to marriage. You and your (insert family member/pet/innate object here) may feel you are in love but cannot get married.

    4) you can claim that two heterosexuals can create a loving family unit and raise children who need a home.

    ...yet again, polygamists and 1st degree relatives among others could fall into this category.

    5) you could claim that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality in that each is simply a sexual orientation one has the option to choose from.

    ...yet orientation is simply an affinity of one thing for another. Homosexuality is a behavior. If you were to infer that homosexuality is an orientation then you would also have to concede that other orientations are on equal ground with homosexuality based on the simple category of alternative orientation. This would include incest, beastiality, and pedophilia. All of which are sexual orientations that without accompanied behavior are legal.

    So, it appears that one cannot claim a right to marriage by simply being two (or more) consenting human beings (even of adult age) of a certain orientation who are in love and feel they can raise a healthy family. ...unless you are willing to grant marriage rights to a host of other groups such as polygamists, first degree relatives, pedophiles, animal lovers (you know the kind I'm talking about ) etc.

    This is why it's not a slippery slope.

    Here's another premise. Heterosexuals are different than homosexuals on a basic concept. All people (aside from genetic malformations like hermaphroditism) are physically heterosexuals. That is they are either physiologically male or female with corresponding parts. These parts are physiologically intended to attract to and complement the parts of the opposite sex. This is the intended design of our biology in order to propagate our species. Heterosexual behavior is the term given to this congruence. Homosexual behavior is a deviation from this and is an opposite behavior than our physiological biology intended. Heterosexual behavior is a congruence with our biology and homosexual behavior is an incongruence with our biology.
    If our biology afforded a pathway for homosexuality to create genetic offspring then society could consider these two things simple sexual alternatives. But they are not.

    Heterosexuality is a different entity completely than homosexual behavior.

    So I don't see how separate but equal is even an argument here as homosexuality is not equal with heterosexuality.

    Therefore if heterosexuals create a social construct called marriage it is within their prerogative to define it as being between a man and a woman. (On the way that any group rationally discriminates it's commonalities for participation) Outside groups have no legitimate argument to force their way into it without also conceding the door to Pandora's box.


    I'm looking for a real discussion on this subject.
    Last edited by LuckyLarry; 09-16-13 at 05:09 AM.

  2. #982

    On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    No one is saying they they are exactly the same. There are similarities in how they have been treated legally though.
    What are these similarities you are referring to?

    BTW there never has been a religion gene discovered.
    . Nobody is arguing for one religious belief system to have the "right" to marry another religious belief system. Interestingly enough though, there are heterosexual genes. They are described as XY for male and XX for female.

    Religions also have been treated the same way as blacks and gays.
    Exactly what similarities between religious belief systems and "blacks and gays" is relevant to the discussion about defining the word marriage?

  3. #983
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLarry View Post
    What are these similarities you are referring to?
    Did you miss where I said legally?


    . Nobody is arguing for one religious belief system to have the "right" to marry another religious belief system. Interestingly enough though, there are heterosexual genes. They are described as XY for male and XX for female.
    Those are chromosomes not genes


    Exactly what similarities between religious belief systems and "blacks and gays" is relevant to the discussion about defining the word marriage?
    You missed the legally part again i see.

  4. #984

    On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Those are chromosomes not genes
    They are chromosomes containing genes for the phenotypic expression of heterosexual sex characteristics. XX for female and XY for male.

    Will this answer suffice or are you going to try to move the goal posts again?

  5. #985

    On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    You missed the legally part again i see.
    Are you unable to provide more specific examples? I'm not baiting you for argument sake. I'm curious what specific legal struggles blacks and people of certain religious beliefs share with homosexuals in your opinion.

  6. #986
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLarry View Post
    They are chromosomes containing genes for the phenotypic expression of heterosexual sex characteristics. XX for female and XY for male.

    Will this answer suffice or are you going to try to move the goal posts again?
    I never moved the goal posts. And sometimes people turn out gay XX or XY chromosomes. Whoop tee do. Sometime people get green eyes, are left handed, etc....

    Why do you think heterosexuals are a class above homosexuals?

  7. #987
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLarry View Post
    Are you unable to provide more specific examples? I'm not baiting you for argument sake. I'm curious what specific legal struggles blacks and people of certain religious beliefs share with homosexuals in your opinion.
    They all have been discriminated against by the state through out history in one way or another to the point it can be very well documented as systemic.

  8. #988

    On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I never moved the goal posts. And sometimes people turn out gay XX or XY chromosomes. Whoop tee do. Sometime people get green eyes, are left handed, etc....
    with respect to our species, phenotypic sex characteristics can only present heterosexually in terms of either a male or female. It makes sense that the biological intention of orientation would correlate as heterosexual. Leaving 2 possible scenarios: 1) homosexual (and other orientations) are a genetic defect or, 2) they are socially/environmentally acquired. So I see (pun intended) no logical link to your analogy of phenotypic eye color expression. Other than your need to marginalize the etiology of sexual orientation.

    A more accurate analogy would be heterosexual expression is to eyes with effective vision as homosexual expression is to blindness. The analogy holds true with respect to function/intention.

    Why do you think heterosexuals are a class above homosexuals?
    I never made such a claim. Don't build straw men.

  9. #989

    On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    They all have been discriminated against by the state through out history in one way or another to the point it can be very well documented as systemic.
    This leads me to believe that you are not going to cite a specific example. I'm hoping that's not true. I'd like to talk more about this.

  10. #990
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLarry View Post
    This leads me to believe that you are not going to cite a specific example. I'm hoping that's not true. I'd like to talk more about this.
    It is kinda a broad thing yanno. We can talk about Romans tossing Christians to the lions, slavery, laws criminalizing homosexuality, etc.

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