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Thread: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

  1. #701
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    Before marriage became a legal institution, it still existed. Who says that two men or two women living together in Greece, Rome, Asia, etc. were not married by their own local customs? Jumping the broom, hand fasting, tying the hands together were accepted "marriage" ceremonies of many societies... It was not until organized religion put fear into the hearts and minds of the populace, that it went underground--or into the closet...
    Well, I think one ...or two rather, should jump the broom, hand fast away... nobody is stopping them. Just do not expect it to be recognized by society. Nobody cares if you do that.
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Scientists have already said it is caused by epigenetics. Even if they are wrong it is extremely unlikely there is a gay gene, but more likely it's caused from a mutation in a gene. You're free to blast this post if you want, but doing a five second search will tell you I'm right and that scientists agree with me on the likely genetic connection if there is one.
    See, Henrin, I AGREE that there is probably no gay gene. I never argue from that position. Scientists tend to agree that sexual orientation is caused by genetics (including epigenetics), bio-chemistry, hormones, environmental factors, or some combination. The point that I am making is that just because on gay gene has been found, doesn't mean that a specific gene that causes sexual orientation doesn't exist. We don't know. Because of this, Bronson's presentation is false.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    legally they are factually not equal
    How so?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    How so?
    Seriously?

    Many states don't recognize them at all. The Federal government doesn't recognize civil unions. Literally thousands of laws exist regarding marriage that do not mention, and therefore do not affect, civil unions. Even in states that attempt to make them equal in every way, they're not. Because you can't bring a civil union to other states, the Feds don't recognize them, and in practice there's a million different forms or procedures where people will ask you if you're married, and you aren't. (like, some gay couples with a legal, recognized civil union in the state that issued it still ran into troubles at the hospital regarding visitation rights)

    Civil unions are not treated equally under the law. Not even remotely close. And let's say we fixed that, let's say they were. Let's say we made a separate but equal status. You don't see the issue?
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Seriously?

    Many states don't recognize them at all. The Federal government doesn't recognize civil unions. Literally thousands of laws exist regarding marriage that do not mention, and therefore do not affect, civil unions. Even in states that attempt to make them equal in every way, they're not. Because you can't bring a civil union to other states, the Feds don't recognize them, and in practice there's a million different forms or procedures where people will ask you if you're married, and you aren't. (like, some gay couples with a legal, recognized civil union in the state that issued it still ran into troubles at the hospital regarding visitation rights)

    Civil unions are not treated equally under the law. Not even remotely close. And let's say we fixed that, let's say they were. Let's say we made a separate but equal status. You don't see the issue?
    I think that the block lgbt is running into is that many consider "marriage" a religious rite.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think that the block lgbt is running into is that many consider "marriage" a religious rite.
    I would agree to some extent. Which is why my position would be to eliminate the word marriage altogether and call any and all unions that are governmentally sanctioned, civil unions. Gay, straight, whatever. Same name, same rights. Then, if you are "united" in a religious ceremony, you can use the term "marriage". It fits since the term civil union meets the government definition very well.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #707
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I would agree to some extent. Which is why my position would be to eliminate the word marriage altogether and call any and all unions that are governmentally sanctioned, civil unions. Gay, straight, whatever. Same name, same rights. Then, if you are "united" in a religious ceremony, you can use the term "marriage". It fits since the term civil union meets the government definition very well.
    I think that is a way to do it, maybe the only uncontroversial way.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    It could be a business



    They shouldn't be forced to participate in the ceremonies. You need to separate taking photos in a retail environment and actively taking part in the ceremony itself. A line must be drawn. It clashes with the First Amendment Rights of others. Surely you believe in the First Amendment right?



    The First Amendment is

    Precedent has already been set. You can't force people to take part in ceremonies, or pledges that contradicts their beliefs and freedom of expression. Nobody should be forced to marry gay people. Nobody should be forced to condone or take part in their ceremonies against their will and against their beliefs.
    100% correct they don't. What they are after is support and legitimizing discrimination they chose.
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I other words, you have nothing. Let's see... I destroyed your argument because the research that you posted was shown to be invalid, so you couldn't post anything in response other than what you did above... a non-argument.

    Good job.
    LOL. The only thing you might have destroyed is the letter "I' on your keyboard.

    Question on that 20 man study that indicated most didn't know how to put a rubber on correctly. How many of them tried to put one on over their head? I saw a guy try to do that in a bar one night and it was pretty funny. I didn't look around to see if anyone was taking notes for a study but who knows, somebody might have been.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Your position does not reflect reality. The definitions of words change as society changes. Your position on whether this "should" or "should not" happen is irrelevant as to what occurs. They must as, because of my presentation of the definition of the word definition, in order to be consistent with how the word is used. And as a side note, this is why you always lose in these exchanges. You tend to use the word "should" or some concept that means "should". This is a reflection of your opinion, as should does not define what actually happens.
    I have clearly never lost in any "exchange" with you in these threads.

    The usage of words change over time, but that does not mean that the word is "redefined" or "takes on a new meaning" when the usage of that word is erroneous with respect to the true meaning of the word being used.

    I've clearly presented analogously that you simply can't call a cat a dog, erroneously misusing the word "dog", and expect any rational person to say "well, the word 'dog' was used to describe a cat so the word 'dog' has been redefined to include cats".

    Erroneous usage of a word does in no way redefine or change the meaning of the word, obviously.

    Erroneously referring in usage to a SS-couple's relevant relationship as a "marriage" in no way redefines or changes the meaning of the word "marriage".

    The word "marriage" continues to mean "a man and a woman as husband and wife".

    It really is that simple.

    Thus your derogatory comments about me you presented in the post here I quoted are simply really in reference to yourself ..

    .. Obviously.
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