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Thread: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    So get busy and share with me how homosexual relationships are normal and on equal footing with traditional marriage.
    Homosexual relationships are normal and equal to traditional in every single solitary way with the smallest of exceptions that there are two of the same gender people in one, and opposite gender in the other.

    Both have jobs. Both have bills. Both own homes. Both drive cars. Both pay taxes. Both have fights. Both buy groceries. Both cook dinners. Both cut grass. Both have deep personal feelings of love and commitment for each other. Both have pets. Both put out garbage. Both shovel snow. Both watch TV. Both read. Both vote. Both may serve in the military. Both have families. Both ......

    EVERYTHING homosexuals do heterosexuals do. They just do a few things with a different gender.

    What percentage of your overall life would you guesstimate is spent having sex? 5% maybe? Probably less.

    So if you subtract the "icky sex with the same gender spouse" - there's absolutely NO difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    blah blah blah
    translation: you still got ZERO facts to back up your posts and are posting one last desperate dodge and deflection.
    running away doesnt change anything the second still tick, i accept you giving up and accepting the lose

    let us know when you can provide any facts to back up your claim, even ONE will do
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    This applies even if they are not married? Am I reading that correctly?
    I dont know i certainly didnt read that anywhere
    what i read said the IRS (federal) will be granting equal rights to all married people even if the state they currently resides doesnt recognize thier marriage. As in you got married in DC but live in South Carolina now. Even though the state doesnt recognize your equal rights the FED will.

    What did you read that said otherwise maybe i missed something
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    I dont know i certainly didnt read that anywhere
    what i read said the IRS (federal) will be granting equal rights to all married people even if the state they currently resides doesnt recognize thier marriage. As in you got married in DC but live in South Carolina now. Even though the state doesnt recognize your equal rights the FED will.

    What did you read that said otherwise maybe i missed something
    Nope, I misread. Thanks for the clarification.
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    The only people who feel the need to separate them are people who have issues with LGBT Americans. There isn't a practical reason to separate as they are entering the same contract. By your logic, we should also separate interracial marriages because they're different. My point being, yes a cat show, and dog show are different, but we still call them both shows. In you wanna throw the words "same sex" in front of some peoples marriages that's fine by me, but marriage is marriage.
    No, with regard to your first sentence, as there are mentally and emotionally intelligent people who are not biased but who recognize the word usage oxymoronic quick-fix error being attempted by political factions that would completely disrespect definitive propriety, definitive propriety that forms the foundation of our use of language to effectively communicate perceptions and concepts existing both today and in the past.

    Definitive propriety requires that we honor the meaning of words and not try to purposely corrupt their meaning to make them mean other than what they truly mean.

    For example, when differentiating between sex-gender, we do not call adult females "men", we call them "women", because if we corrupted the meaning of "men" to include females then the word "men" would no longer be of value as a descriptive word in both the past and present.

    Both men and women have the same human rights, however, they are simply named differently.

    In your example, yes, both a cat show and a dog show are a show, just like both men and women are people.

    As you go on to say, we still call them shows, .. and each cat show and dog show can create the same contests and prizes and the like with descriptions appropriate to the cat/dog show (best purr, loudest bark, best cat in show, best dog in show, etc.). But, the dog show and the cat show are still kept separate and referenced with separate terms.

    So when speaking of cat shows and dog shows they are always called "cat shows" and "dog shows" because the compound term is foundationally descriptive. They simply aren't called "shows" when being publically presented and referenced to avoid understandable confusion.

    Likewise, we don't call adult females "men", even though the syllable "men" is found in both the word "men" and the word "women".

    The word marriage has always been since its inception just before the agricultural revolution more than 12,000 years ago "between a man and a woman as husband and wife". That's what the word means. And comparatively microscopic numbers of occurrences of erroneous applications of the word throughout history from time to time in no way changes what marriage truly is any more than the similarly rare instance of calling a cat a dog justifies entering that cat in a dog show.

    But are the committed romantic relationships of same-sex couples any less a domestic partnership civil union than the committed romantic relationships of opposite-sex couples?

    Absolutely not, just like cat shows are every bit as ethically legitimate as dog shows.

    OS and SS couples' relationships should both be recognized by government and private enterprise.

    However, with respect to definitive propriety, the foundational test of words and their meaning, a test that comes first prior to ever speculating whether discrimination has occurred, an SS-couple's committed romantic domestic partnership civil union is simply not a "marriage" any more than a female adult is a "man".

    A female adult is a "woman".

    Both "woman" and "man" have the "man" syllable.

    And thus I have suggested "homarriage" to be the word used to describe the committed romantic domestic partnership civil union of a SS-couple.

    You have suggested "same-sex marriage".

    It seems to me that the only task left is indeed to create a new word that has meaning here in this case and create domestic partnership civil union statutes in every state and recognized by the federal government so that on the 1040 form etc. there would be added a separate status box called "homarried" or whatever is decided.

    When we respect definitive propriety we progress and become smarter.

    When we ignore definitive propriety and thus disrespect it, we regress, and dumb ourselves down.
    Last edited by Ontologuy; 09-10-13 at 03:50 PM.
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Homosexual relationships are normal and equal to traditional in every single solitary way with the smallest of exceptions that there are two of the same gender people in one, and opposite gender in the other.

    Both have jobs. Both have bills. Both own homes. Both drive cars. Both pay taxes. Both have fights. Both buy groceries. Both cook dinners. Both cut grass. Both have deep personal feelings of love and commitment for each other. Both have pets. Both put out garbage. Both shovel snow. Both watch TV. Both read. Both vote. Both may serve in the military. Both have families. Both ......

    EVERYTHING homosexuals do heterosexuals do. They just do a few things with a different gender.

    What percentage of your overall life would you guesstimate is spent having sex? 5% maybe? Probably less.

    So if you subtract the "icky sex with the same gender spouse" - there's absolutely NO difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage.
    Normal and equal, uh? Lets review some of the words you used to describe normal and equal.

    "smallest exceptions"
    "two of the same gender in one"
    "everything homosexuals do heterosexuals do. They just do a few things with a different gender."
    "icky sex with the same gender spouse"

    Then the kicker-
    "there's absolutely no difference between gay marriage and a straight marriage."

    You have not described a normal marriage. Though you left some things out, even you finally got around to admitting some differences.
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Normal and equal, uh? Lets review some of the words you used to describe normal and equal.

    "smallest exceptions"
    "two of the same gender in one"
    "everything homosexuals do heterosexuals do. They just do a few things with a different gender."
    "icky sex with the same gender spouse"

    Then the kicker-
    "there's absolutely no difference between gay marriage and a straight marriage."

    You have not described a normal marriage. Though you left some things out, even you finally got around to admitting some differences.
    So, other than the actual sex part - what's different between a gay relationship and a straight relationship????

    Because everything else is the same.

    And sex makes up a very small portion of life.

    So the differences between the two are minuscule unless you're trying to make something bigger than it really is.

    So tell us, what's different?

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Homosexual relationships are normal and equal to traditional in every single solitary way with the smallest of exceptions that there are two of the same gender people in one, and opposite gender in the other.

    Both have jobs. Both have bills. Both own homes. Both drive cars. Both pay taxes. Both have fights. Both buy groceries. Both cook dinners. Both cut grass. Both have deep personal feelings of love and commitment for each other. Both have pets. Both put out garbage. Both shovel snow. Both watch TV. Both read. Both vote. Both may serve in the military. Both have families. Both ......

    EVERYTHING homosexuals do heterosexuals do. They just do a few things with a different gender.

    What percentage of your overall life would you guesstimate is spent having sex? 5% maybe? Probably less.

    So if you subtract the "icky sex with the same gender spouse" - there's absolutely NO difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage.
    That all sounds very normal except for that little part about the sex.

    But let's say a couple who were of the age of consent in an incestuous relationship who Both have jobs. Both have bills. Both own homes. Both drive cars. Both pay taxes. Both have fights. Both buy groceries. Both cook dinners. Both cut grass. Both have deep personal feelings of love and commitment for each other. Both have pets. Both put out garbage. Both shovel snow. Both watch TV. Both read. Both vote. Both may serve in the military. Both have families. Both ......

    EVERYTHING heterosexuals do. They just happen to be closely related.

    Today I did a little research on incest. What I discovered was astounding. I was unaware how many countries where there are no prohibitions on incest between consenting adults. And some of the laws are so loose that it gives the impression that many don't find it a problem.

    Laws regarding incest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Then I started to think about how we are a country of immigrants. If so many cultures worldwide accept incest, how much longer will it be before people start voting to remove the laws against it here in this country?
    So I went and checked the status in the U.S. and sure enough the laws are loosening where almost half of the states now allow marriage to 1st cousins. And their laws considering it a crime have lessened in severity as well.

    But the cherry on the sundae was an article about a story run on Nightline a couple of years ago about a law professor in political science at Columbia University was arrested on incest charges over a three year affair he was having with his adult daughter. By all counts it was consensual. But Professor of Law, David Epstein's lawyer's response to reporters was very interesting.......

    "Epstein's lawyer, Matthew Galluzzo,

    said that charges against his client were still "only allegations" that have not been proven.

    "Academically, we are obviously all morally opposed to incest and rightfully so," he told ABCNews.com. "At the same time, there is an argument to be made in the Swiss case to let go what goes on privately in bedrooms."

    "It's OK for homosexuals to do whatever they want in their own home," he said. "How is this so different? We have to figure out why some behavior is tolerated and some is not."
    Switzerland Considers Legalizing Consensual Incest; Columbia Professor Accused of Sex With Daughter - ABC News

    A very valid question on the part of the attorney. If homosexuals can why not consensual incest?

    Well as the story goes, Professor Epstein pleaded guilty. But it was never reported by the MSM. (crickets) And he is still listed as a member of faculty at Columbia University. Oh and by the way, David Epstein was a left wing contributor to Huffington Post. Did some scathing attacks on Sarah Palin that were over the top.
    HuffPo Contributor, Law Professor Pleads Guilty to Incest Charges | The American Pundit

    By you and many others I was reamed for a better word for bringing up incest as the new frontier after same sex marriage and told my argument was a fallacy yada yada yada.

    And because of redefining marriage, opens the doors for others to claim the same so called civil rights. For the gays it was first doing away with the laws of sodomy, and from there we now have Same Sex marriage. In the case of incest, the laws are already weakening in the states, how much longer till they are abolished just like the sodomy laws? And then the next step will be just like the gay movement, declare incest legitimate.
    Last edited by vesper; 09-10-13 at 06:01 PM.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    That all sounds very normal except for that little part about the sex.

    But let's say a couple who were of the age of consent in an incestuous relationship who Both have jobs. Both have bills. Both own homes. Both drive cars. Both pay taxes. Both have fights. Both buy groceries. Both cook dinners. Both cut grass. Both have deep personal feelings of love and commitment for each other. Both have pets. Both put out garbage. Both shovel snow. Both watch TV. Both read. Both vote. Both may serve in the military. Both have families. Both ......

    EVERYTHING heterosexuals do. They just happen to be closely related.

    Today I did a little research on incest. What I discovered was astounding. I was unaware how many countries where there are no prohibitions on incest between consenting adults. And some of the laws are so loose that it gives the impression that many don't find it a problem.

    Laws regarding incest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Then I started to think about how we are a country of immigrants. If so many cultures worldwide accept incest, how much longer will it be before people start voting to remove the laws against it here in this country?
    So I went and checked the status in the U.S. and sure enough the laws are loosening where almost half of the states now allow marriage to 1st cousins. And their laws considering it a crime have lessened in severity as well.

    But the cherry on the sundae was an article about a story run on Nightline a couple of years ago about a law professor in political science at Columbia University was arrested on incest charges over a three year affair he was having with his adult daughter. By all counts it was consensual. But Professor of Law, David Epstein's lawyer's response to reporters was very interesting.......

    "Epstein's lawyer, Matthew Galluzzo,

    said that charges against his client were still "only allegations" that have not been proven.

    "Academically, we are obviously all morally opposed to incest and rightfully so," he told ABCNews.com. "At the same time, there is an argument to be made in the Swiss case to let go what goes on privately in bedrooms."

    "It's OK for homosexuals to do whatever they want in their own home," he said. "How is this so different? We have to figure out why some behavior is tolerated and some is not."
    Switzerland Considers Legalizing Consensual Incest; Columbia Professor Accused of Sex With Daughter - ABC News

    A very valid question on the part of the attorney. If homosexuals can why not consensual incest?

    Well as the story goes, Professor Epstein pleaded guilty. But it was never reported by the MSM. (crickets) And he is still listed as a member of faculty at Columbia University. Oh and by the way, David Epstein was a left wing contributor to Huffington Post. Did some scathing attacks on Sarah Palin that were over the top.
    HuffPo Contributor, Law Professor Pleads Guilty to Incest Charges | The American Pundit

    By you and many others I was reamed for a better word for bringing up incest as the new frontier after same sex marriage and told my argument was a fallacy yada yada yada.

    And because of redefining marriage, opens the doors for others to claim the same so called civil rights. For the gays it was first doing away with the laws of sodomy, and from there we now have Same Sex marriage. In the case of incest, the laws are already weakening in the states, how much longer till they are abolished just like the sodomy laws? And then the next step will be just like the gay movement, declare incest legitimate.
    it is still a factually fallacy because gay marriage wouldnt open up the door to it anymore than hetero marriage, what don you get?
    there is ZERO precedence for gay marriage thet lends itself to incest and any fallacy one that is made up can also be used for hetero sex thats the point

    so your open doors statement isd complete bs that cant be backed up by any facts at all

    if you disagree by all means please provide facts showing how allowing gay marriage leads to your other examples and hetero marriage doesnt. i cant wait to read it because you will have nothing that doesn't get proven wrong.
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  10. #530
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I don't support government involvement in marriage at all,
    I would bet money that you never once thought this before it became apparent that same-sex marriage was coming whether you like it or not.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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