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Thread: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

  1. #481
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    man/boy relationships were quite popular in ancient Greece and Rome. Young male prostitutes in the Edo period of Japan were called kagema. Their clients were mainly adult men.

    In southern areas of Central Asia and Afghanistan adolescent males between twelve and sixteen years old perform erotic songs and suggestive dancing and are available as sex workers. Such boys are known as bacchá.

    In India, a hijra is a physically male or intersex person who may sometimes enter into prostitution. Not all hijras are prostitutes, however, and many consider themselves to have a female identity in a male body and accept this as a sacred condition or gift. Hijras dress as women and dance at weddings.

    Nothing new under the sun.....who knows maybe these practices will become the new norm in this country some day.
    The sky is not falling.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #482
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Various versions of Leviticus 18:22:
    "Thou shalt not lie with the male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." 1599 Geneva Bible
    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." American Standard Version
    "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Amplified Bible
    "You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice." Common English Bible
    "You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Complete Jewish Bible
    "It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man." Contemporary English Version
    "And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination." Darby Translation
    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination." Douay Reims 1899 American Edition
    "Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!" ERV
    "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." English Standard Version
    "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." English Standard Version, Anglicized
    "You must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin." EXB
    "No man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that." GNT
    "You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable." HCSB
    "Thou shalt not lie with males as with women; it is abomination." Jubilee 2000 Bible
    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." King James Version
    "And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing." Lexham English Bible
    "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." New American Standard Bible
    "You must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin." New Century Version
    "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." New International Version
    "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing." New Life Version
    "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." New Living Translation
    "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." New Revised Standard Version
    "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Revised Standard Version
    "You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestable." World English Bible
    "And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is]." Young's Literal Translation.

    Personally? I think I'll go with a whole host of actual biblical scholars from the 15th century to today who have translated that verse re the above rather than entertain (though entertaining it certainly is) the "CaptainCourtesy" version of the bible.
    My version comes from actual translations of ancient Hebrew, the language that the bible was originally written in. Personally, I'll take that translation over any of the false translations that EdwinWillers presents.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #483
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    This is where your logic fails miserably. What if we were all allowed to shoot each other in the head? Just because we make marriage legal means we might actually consider shooting each other as something that might be acceptable. At least according to your warped slippery slope. Despite marriage being legal, and despite things like sodomy becoming legal for straight people the problems associated with incest are still there. Your problem is you associate unrelated ideas and pretend that because we make one legal we have to make them all legal and that just is not so. Look at drugs. Tobacco, alcohol, OTCs, and prescription medicine are all legal. We are also finding some places are making pot smoking legal. However, we have a number of illegal substances that are still quite illegal because they are different that those that are legal. People see legalized crack as being a bad thing despite seeing legalizing pot as something that should happen.

    You are making an incoherent argument that has nothing to do with the real argument. Gay relations are not incest. They are between two consenting unrelated adults. Most proponents of gay marriage have nop interest in discussing incestual relationships and oppose them. Your fears are unfounded and make a really piss poor excuse for keeping gay marriage from being recognized by the state. Since we are perfectly capable of discussing two separate issues separately and deciding laws that deal with them separately.


    Wow, that was a pretty amazing leap of faith. because men look at other women we have to have incest if gay marriage becomes legal. Did you get that from sarah palin? We are capable of dealing with both differently, and just because gay marriage becomes legal does not mean incest will. That is absurdity and you really need to come up with a real argument.
    You have a reading comprehension problem.
    I did not state that a gay relationship was automatically an incestuous one. I stated there is nothing in law from keeping them from occurring among same sex partners. The only reason for the incest laws are because of deformities in children that can occur. Two people of the same sex can't reproduce so problem solved. If the moral argument against same sex marriage is invalid then it is also invalid against two of the same sex in an incestuous relationship. Just because YOU may find it immoral is not a good enough reason anymore.

  4. #484
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    The building blocks of a strong nation are its families. Families are created through procreation, and you probably know about homosexual sex not being procreative sex. The strongest of families have a father and a mother. While it sounds all nice and touchy feely, it is less good to have single parenthood and it is lesser good to have same sex parents, for the children's sake. Also, marriage, which is a proven good thing in societies, is lessened, does not have its real meaning anymore, by this desire of homosexuals that everyone else to accept, be forced to accept, what many of us just do not, probably will never accept, as right, nor as good practice.
    Most of this is not accurate. Research shows that children raised in households with two parents, REGARDLESS of the sex or sexual orientation of the parents, do best. Also, procreation is completely irrelevant to the legal aspects of marriage... unless you can prove that in order to get married, the couple most demonstrate that they plan on procreating. Lastly, no one is forcing you to accept anything. Don't accept it. Close your eyes to it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    Just because somebody wants something, if it hurts the whole and in the long run, you have the strength to say no...just like a parent does with their children. Cookies before dinner, gonna kill a kid? No, but it is better for them to have an appetite and eat the proper things at dinner.
    And yet you have failed to prove that it hurts anything other than YOUR sensibilities... which are irrelevant when it comes to proof.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #485
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    It definitely is limited tho..and cannot interfere with the peace of the state... Meaning it's laws and stability....Another words, you have the right to believe anything that you want to believe as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others..
    Right of conscience is often written out in state constitutions. It means you nor anyone else has the right to make laws that forces another to violate his most secret core and sanctuary.

  6. #486
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    The stuck broken record syndrome. Don't agree with me? Automatically I'll call them bigots, haters, hypocrites and such. Over and over. LOL.

    You get no mileage out of that anymore . It's been way over played.

    Here's a snip from sociologist Mark Regnerus study that was published in Social Science Research, Volume 41, Issue 4 July 2012 as it relates to children of gay couples:
    "Although the findings reported herein may be explicable in part by a variety of forces uniquely problematic for child development in lesbian and gay families—including a lack of social support for parents, stress exposure resulting from persistent stigma, and modest or absent legal security for their parental and romantic relationship statuses—the empirical claim that no notable differences exist must go."

    He found kids raised by gays have more problems than by straight parents. Now he doesn't make any claim that gays can't do a good job just that overall he found their kids had more problems. That runs counter to many previous reports and he explains why. Pretty common sense stuff if a person takes the time to read it instead of the attack machine that went out of control when he published the report. The thought police hit the melt down mode on this one.

    So as vesper has been saying, a lot of thought should go into any gay marriage decisions. Marriage sets the standards for the family unit even though that unit has been under attack from the left as well for years already. Sorry ladies but single women usually make poor daddies. Not always, but usually. So now if we start adding even more strain on kids with gay parents, which the research shows higher numbers will have, what's tomorrow look like?
    The Regnerus study has been debunked. In the study, he compares children with two straight parents to children in SINGLE-parent households and tries to draw conclusions from this towards gay marriage. Absolutely idiotic methodology which has no validity. The debunking of this study is WIDELY known. Also, some have reported that the study was funded by an anti-gay organization, commissioned to conclude negatives about SSM.

    The study you cited has no credibility.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #487
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Seems to me the darling of the KKK is the forever Robert Byrd, W. Va Senator of West Virginia,,,,,,,Democrat. And the rest of the Dixiecrats.
    You do know that the Dixiecrats were conservatives, right?

    Your hyperbole shows the weakness in your argument
    Someone points out the association of some with NAMBLA with the gay rights movement and you fall apart because you can't justify it.
    So you attack the Tea Party? When the biggest arrogant bastards in promotion of the KKK were the friggin Democrats. (AKA Dixiecrats}
    But hey when your losing a battle what better time than to play the f-ing race card!


    ;.
    No, what has happened here is your logical fallacies have been exposed and shown to make your argument invalid. Your refusal to see this is irrelevant to this fact.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #488
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Hurts society long term, confuses children about what is natural and what is unnatural
    Since homosexuality is natural, this is false.

    causes misery, angst, a mess that has no right being heaped upon the rest of us just because 2%, a minimal minority, wants to impose this silliness upon the rest of us, most of whom, if push came to shove, would really rather not have this bull on a stick stuck in our faces all the time...
    And none of this is "proof" but your own unsubstantiated opinion.

    Sorry to offend, but that is just the truth of the matter...
    No, it's your opinion. That does not equal truth.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #489
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    You have a reading comprehension problem.
    I did not state that a gay relationship was automatically an incestuous one. I stated there is nothing in law from keeping them from occurring among same sex partners. The only reason for the incest laws are because of deformities in children that can occur. Two people of the same sex can't reproduce so problem solved. If the moral argument against same sex marriage is invalid then it is also invalid against two of the same sex in an incestuous relationship. Just because YOU may find it immoral is not a good enough reason anymore.
    yes, but the recognition of marriage for same sex people does not make the government start recognizing marriages between people who are in direct relation. The laws are still separate. making one legal does not make the other one legal though you may think it should. No, the gays are not bringing the incest people along on the bus with them. They will make their own arguments. People will have to address that issue separately. they are not the same.

  10. #490
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Of course there are slippery slopes. But what does incest have to do with homosexuality? That is where the breakdown in your logic occurs.
    Thank you for acknowledging there is such a thing as a slippery slope. In redefining marriage to include same sex partners automatically changes culture as we know it. Incestuous relationships are illegal because they can produce deformed children. It could be argued that the law is meaningless to homosexuals who do not have the ability to reproduce. Family Law is currently being re-written because the traditional family is no longer the standard.

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