• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Nobody cares whether or not you approve or accept it. Seriously, get over yourself. This isn't a discussion about how you should think. How on earth do you perceive the state as trying to "force you" to accept it as "normal?" Some kind of mind control ray? What, I'm supposed to believe that if the state recognizes same-sex marriage, you're going to change your mind? You'll suddenly think it's ok?

No, my friend, this is not about the state forcing you to accept something as normal. This is about you. You don't want to accept it as normal, and you want to make damned sure nobody else does either.

Forcing you. Laughable. It is laughable that you think this has anything to do with your opinion.

yep you nailed it, anytime somebody says " forcing me not only to accept it, but accept it as normal behavior" everybody honest just laughs

when people have no valid arguments they just make up failed strawmen
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

yep you nailed it, anytime somebody says " forcing me not only to accept it, but accept it as normal behavior" everybody honest just laughs

when people have no valid arguments they just make up failed strawmen
:lamo "Strawmen" :lamo
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

"Get over myself?" :) Seriously, I was over myself a long time ago. But if you don't like where I'm coming from on this topic, maybe - just maybe it's you who needs to get over that -- unless of course you have something substantive to add beyond your opinion on how "laughable" you think everything is. :2wave:

Maybe, for example, you could provide some facts demonstrating the humor in what I posted. Why it's humorous, what about it makes it humorous, or perhaps the comedic elements you found in it that makes it so humorous. Of course in keeping with your own criteria, they need to be facts, not your opinions.

For example, one might - say - point to someone's chosen subtitle of "Outer space potato man" and find the humor in such a person lecturing anyone with "how on earth..." they perceive anything.

The comedic elements there of course being quite obvious. :lamo

KWIM?

You want a fact? Ok.

Nobody is forcing you to accept anything. And nobody really cares whether or not you do. The state isn't forcing you to accept anything. Gay people aren't forcing you to accept anything. Even after same-sex marriage is legal throughout the nation, you'll have your first amendment right to sit here and whine on internet forums about how terrible those gays are.

How about you present some facts, starting with exactly how legalizing same-sex marriage would even affect you. Two dudes can get married already in several states. Do you love your wife any less? Your marriage less meaningful? Feel any different about your children?
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

:lamo "Strawmen" :lamo

yep, thats what it factually is and thats what we all do when we read it, we laugh

let us know when you have any facts to back up your failed strawman, we'd love to read them
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

You want a fact? Ok.

Nobody is forcing you to accept anything. And nobody really cares whether or not you do. The state isn't forcing you to accept anything. Gay people aren't forcing you to accept anything. Even after same-sex marriage is legal throughout the nation, you'll have your first amendment right to sit here and whine on internet forums about how terrible those gays are.
Well laws may be voluntary in outer space potato land (seriously - you need to change your subtitle), but here on earth laws are binding and come with the very real threat of force if one doesn't comply. For your own edification, you might want to look up what force is attendant with this particular law - what penalties the proponents of the law are seeking to ensure compliance.

No one is forcing me to accept anything? Then why the law?
Nobody really cares whether or not I do? Then why the law?
The state isn't forcing me to accept anything? Already asked, then why the law?
Gay people aren't forcing me to accept anything? Already asked, but then why the law?

W/r to the first amendment - I suspect you think you're being funny or cute, but consider what recently happened in Canada (and please, no puerile snarks about Canada not being America):
Ottawa, Ontario – The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior, including in written form, is essentially a hate crime. Source.
And if you want something a little closer to home, consider this recent ruling:
SANTA FE – The New Mexico Supreme Court ruled unanimously on Thursday that Christian photographers may not refuse to shoot homosexual ‘weddings’ in the state, as all citizens must ‘compromise … to accommodate the contrasting views of others.’ Source.
No one is forcing me to accept anything? Then why the law?

How about you present some facts, starting with exactly how legalizing same-sex marriage would even affect you. Two dudes can get married already in several states. Do you love your wife any less? Your marriage less meaningful? Feel any different about your children?
This is an asinine question, if not for its sheer irrelevance then for its sheer inanity. Good grief.

Do you honestly think I oppose homosexual marriage because it would diminish my love for my wife? Is that your premise?
Is it your belief my opposition to homosexual marriage is because it will make *my* marriage less meaningful?
Or do you really, truly believe that I'm opposed to homosexual marriage because I think it'll change how I feel for my children?

Who filled you such crap? Where did you acquire such stupid premises and why in the world (yours or mine - seriously, you need to change your subtitle) - why in the world did you adopt them so as to repeat them publicly like this to embarrass yourself in the process?

Is that really what you think is motivating the opposition to homosexual marriage? :doh
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Well laws may be voluntary in outer space potato land (seriously - you need to change your subtitle), but here on earth laws are binding and come with the very real threat of force if one doesn't comply. For your own edification, you might want to look up what force is attendant with this particular law - what penalties the proponents of the law are seeking to ensure compliance.

No one is forcing me to accept anything? Then why the law?
Nobody really cares whether or not I do? Then why the law?
The state isn't forcing me to accept anything? Already asked, then why the law?
Gay people aren't forcing me to accept anything? Already asked, but then why the law?

W/r to the first amendment - I suspect you think you're being funny or cute, but consider what recently happened in Canada (and please, no puerile snarks about Canada not being America): And if you want something a little closer to home, consider this recent ruling:
No one is forcing me to accept anything? Then why the law?

This is an asinine question, if not for its sheer irrelevance then for its sheer inanity. Good grief.

Do you honestly think I oppose homosexual marriage because it would diminish my love for my wife? Is that your premise?
Is it your belief my opposition to homosexual marriage is because it will make *my* marriage less meaningful?
Or do you really, truly believe that I'm opposed to homosexual marriage because I think it'll change how I feel for my children?

Who filled you such crap? Where did you acquire such stupid premises and why in the world (yours or mine - seriously, you need to change your subtitle) - why in the world did you adopt them so as to repeat them publicly like this to embarrass yourself in the process?

Is that really what you think is motivating the opposition to homosexual marriage? :doh

and yet there is still no force :shrug:
Canada doesnt matter to the US and those photographers still dont "accept" homosexuality.
the force acceptance argument is and has always been a failuer.

why the law then? to protect peoples rights.

do all people accept that minorities are equal? women are equal? other religions are equal? interracial marriages are ok? etc etc? NOPE. but wait how is that possible since theres laws protecting those rights. Oh i know how because laws arent forcing acceptance. A fact that wont change. You are still free to think what ever you want.

Your strawman fails.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Who filled you such crap? Where did you acquire such stupid premises and why in the world (yours or mine - seriously, you need to change your subtitle) - why in the world did you adopt them so as to repeat them publicly like this to embarrass yourself in the process?

Is that really what you think is motivating the opposition to homosexual marriage? :doh

Those comments came from conservatives like yourself. Ever hear legalizing gay marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage? That came from YOUR side. YOUR side is the one that spouts BS like that.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Then why the law?

The law isn't about your opinion. The law doesn't change your opinion. The law being changed says the government will recognize somebody else's marriage. What on earth do you think that has to do with you? Like, somebody is going to come to your house and make sure you're approving of every same-sex wedding? I don't get it. What do you think this has to do with you?

W/r to the first amendment - I suspect you think you're being funny or cute, but consider what recently happened in Canada (and please, no puerile snarks about Canada not being America): And if you want something a little closer to home, consider this recent ruling:

Public accommodation businesses don't have the same rights to discriminate. I'm a pilot. I cannot kick you off my airplane for being a Christian. It's against the law.

Do you honestly think I oppose homosexual marriage because it would diminish my love for my wife? Is that your premise?
Is it your belief my opposition to homosexual marriage is because it will make *my* marriage less meaningful?
Or do you really, truly believe that I'm opposed to homosexual marriage because I think it'll change how I feel for my children?

Who filled you such crap? Where did you acquire such stupid premises and why in the world (yours or mine - seriously, you need to change your subtitle) - why in the world did you adopt them so as to repeat them publicly like this to embarrass yourself in the process?

No, I ask those silly questions to demonstrate my point, which you've confirmed quite nicely: you cannot demonstrate any harm caused to you, or anybody else, by two dudes getting married.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

and yet there is still no force :shrug:
Canada doesnt matter to the US and those photographers still dont "accept" homosexuality.
the force acceptance argument is and has always been a failuer.

why the law then? to protect peoples rights.

do all people accept that minorities are equal? women are equal? other religions are equal? interracial marriages are ok? etc etc? NOPE. but wait how is that possible since theres laws protecting those rights. Oh i know how because laws arent forcing acceptance. A fact that wont change. You are still free to think what ever you want.

Your strawman fails.
:doh You really need to revisit your assumption of what "strawman" means, not to mention how and when to accuse others of using it. :doh
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Those comments came from conservatives like yourself. Ever hear legalizing gay marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage? That came from YOUR side. YOUR side is the one that spouts BS like that.
Somehow I don't think Deuce is a conservative. KWIM?

Moreover, I have NEVER spouted such BS, for that's precisely what it is - and illogical on its face. And given I know of no conservatives who employ such arguments, it's very very likely what arguments they have put forth that perhaps seem similar were completely misconstrued, misrepresented, and/or totally misunderstood. THAT I wouldn't find the least bit surprising in discussions like this.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Somehow I don't think Deuce is a conservative. KWIM?

Moreover, I have NEVER spouted such BS, for that's precisely what it is - and illogical on its face. And given I know of no conservatives who employ such arguments, it's very very likely what arguments they have put forth that perhaps seem similar were completely misconstrued, misrepresented, and/or totally misunderstood. THAT I wouldn't find the least bit surprising in discussions like this.

There have been conservatives who have blamed gays.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

There have been conservatives who have blamed gays.


OMG!!!! The Currant? Really?

:lamo Good grief man....Know your source....

The Daily Currant is an English language online satirical newspaper that covers global politics, business, technology, entertainment, science, health and media. It is accessible from over 190 countries worldwide - now including South Sudan.

Our mission is to ridicule the timid ignorance which obstructs our progress, and promote intelligence - which presses forward.



Q. Are your news stories real?

A. No. Our stories are purely fictional. However they are meant to address real-world issues through satire and often refer and link to real events happening in the world

About - The Daily Currant

I mean it's right there dude...All it took was one click before you made yourself look foolish.

Post: Oh my good one....you just posted without checking the site you were quoting, then you quickly found out that it was a satirical site, and removed, and changed your entire post....Now you'll probably say you never even posted it....:lamo....Carry on.
 
Last edited:
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

OMG!!!! The Currant? Really?

:lamo Good grief man....Know your source....



I mean it's right there dude...All it took was one click before you made yourself look foolish.

Yeah, that's why I removed it. The one looking foolish is you in trying some "gotcha" game. Removed it in less than one minute and it took you 6 minutes to try and write a gotcha post. Pathetic on your part.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Yeah, that's why I removed it. The one looking foolish is you in trying some "gotcha" game. Removed it in less than one minute and it took you 6 minutes to try and write a gotcha post. Pathetic on your part.

Yeah, my chrome is acting up...piece of junk.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

The law isn't about your opinion. The law doesn't change your opinion. The law being changed says the government will recognize somebody else's marriage. What on earth do you think that has to do with you? Like, somebody is going to come to your house and make sure you're approving of every same-sex wedding? I don't get it. What do you think this has to do with you?
I never said the law was about my opinion, neither did I say or imply it would change my opinion. Moreover, that doesn't answer the question - "Then why the law?" - which question I put to your assertion that force plays no role whatsoever in this issue. What in the world do you think a law is???? Do you think it some benign entity that we can regard voluntarily? That's absurd on its face.

Public accommodation businesses don't have the same rights to discriminate. I'm a pilot. I cannot kick you off my airplane for being a Christian. It's against the law.
And if you did... you'd experience the ramifications of law - force. The law forces you to accept Christian passengers. There are penalties if you don't - penalties which constitute the very definition of "FORCE." Your compliance with the law isn't voluntary, it's mandatory.

And besides that - you ignored the other example, the first amendment issue ala the Canadian supreme court.

No, I ask those silly questions to demonstrate my point, which you've confirmed quite nicely: you cannot demonstrate any harm caused to you, or anybody else, by two dudes getting married.
You've either ignored or misconstrued or misrepresented everything I've said and in the process demonstrated precisely squat, save perhaps your bigotry and hatred towards conservatives, Christians, and / or anyone who disagrees with the homosexual agenda. Moreover, I gave you a perfectly valid example of the sort of harm we fear - fears we're seeing realized right now in Canada as well as growing across this nation. Do you think it a trivial thing that speaking out against homosexuality now has precedent as being a "hate crime?" Do you think that has no impact on you just because you support homosexuality?

Yet again, I need to re-assert what I've previously asserted that I don't agree with or support the use of secular legislation to enforce or prohibit behaviors with which I disagree on a moral basis. Homosexual behavior is a reprehensible, deviant, and abominable behavior. It's perversion at its rawest, self-indulgence at its grossest. But do I think we should employ legislation to prevent it? No.

Can it harm me now? Absolutely it can. Canada already considers speaking out against it as a "hate crime." Similar pressure is being applied to make it so here too. It is now illegal to "discriminate" against homosexuals too - meaning regardless my beliefs about homosexual behavior I am now forced by law against making any distinctions about that behavior as being other than normal. It's not normal though; it's deviant. But by law I am forced to treat it as normal lest I be punished. A behavior - inappropriate sexual behavior. We're not talking someone's skin color - an arbitrary distinction between two otherwise equal human beings. We're talking about behavior, willful acts which earn one the legitimate label "homosexual." Bullies, whose behavior is of the aggressive variety e.g. aren't afforded special distinction with status and privilege that homosexuals seek. What makes homosexuals any different than bullies but the nature of their behavior? BOTH are human beings and BOTH enjoy the same status and privileges afforded all human beings - and that wholly separate from their behavior that makes them homosexuals or bullies.

Can it harm me now? Absolutely it can. The story of homosexuals and homosexuality being promoted throughout society is a lie - and lies, regardless their context are harmful to everyone.

I could go on, and will probably have to - but this suffices as an immediate and valid response to your post.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Can it harm me now? Absolutely it can. Canada already considers speaking out against it as a "hate crime."

:lol: :lamo

That is just too ****ing funny.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

:doh You really need to revisit your assumption of what "strawman" means, not to mention how and when to accuse others of using it. :doh
translation: you still got nothing
nope facts prove thats all your argument is and its a failed one but please continue to try and deflect it only exposes your failed strawman further.

your argument is a false made up one that you argue against to feel better about your failed potion. Classic strawman.

let us know when you have something else, something relevant and factual.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

:lamo

Contagious, isn't it?

I'm calling the Canadian coppers on you! Good lawd, you have no concept of reality here. We've had gay marriage for over 10 years, and, apart from more Canadian citizens being on the same-level playing field, nothing has changed.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

translation: you still got nothing
nope facts prove thats all your argument is and its a failed one but please continue to try and deflect it only exposes your failed strawman further.

your argument is a false made up one that you argue against to feel better about your failed potion. Classic strawman.

let us know when you have something else, something relevant and factual.
Translation: you still haven't a clue what a strawman is, let alone how to identify one.

Moreover, simply repeating "you got nothing" negates nothing I've got. You simply don't know what to do with it or how to address it, except to repeatedly wail "you got nothing." So demonstrably, the only one who's "got nothing" is you - well, besides your opinions, to which you're entitled, btw.

I however continue to accurately and factually assert the deviancy, the perversity, the gross self-indulgence that is homosexual behavior.

All you can do is ridicule, deny, say you disagree, say "I've got nothing," or assert that the above is [somehow] a strawman.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

I'm calling the Canadian coppers on you! Good lawd, you have no concept of reality here. We've had gay marriage for over 10 years, and, apart from more Canadian citizens being on the same-level playing field, nothing has changed.
Did or did not the Canadian supreme court rule that Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior, including in written form, is essentially a hate crime (see post 1105 above)?
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

1.)Translation: you still haven't a clue what a strawman is, let alone how to identify one.

2.) Moreover, simply repeating "you got nothing" negates nothing I've got. You simply don't know what to do with it or how to address it, except to repeatedly wail "you got nothing." So demonstrably, the only one who's "got nothing" is you - well, besides your opinions, to which you're entitled, btw.

3.) I however continue to accurately and factually assert the deviancy, the perversity, the gross self-indulgence that is homosexual behavior.
4.) All you can do is ridicule, deny, say you disagree, say "I've got nothing," or assert that the above is [somehow] a strawman.

1.) nice try but the facts disagree with you. try again
2.) deflection noted
3.) your meaningless opinion noted
4.) another failed deflection noted

again let us know when you have anything factual to back up your false claims and failed strawman . . . . ANYTHING factual . . . . .
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Did or did not the Canadian supreme court rule that Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior, including in written form, is essentially a hate crime (see post 1105 above)?

No. The court ruled that speech promoting hate will not be tolerated as per our hate speech laws.

Whatcott published and distributed four anti-gay flyers in Saskatchewan that used words like "filth," "propaganda" and "sodomy" to describe gay relationships and discussions of equality.

On Wednesday, the Supreme Court held that the first two flyers, titled "Keep homosexuality out of Saskatoon's public schools" and "Sodomites in our public schools," did constitute hate speech and reinstated the Saskatchewan tribunal's finding, including $7,500 in fines against Whatcott.

The Court upheld an appeal court's decision on the second two flyers — photocopies of classified ads with Whatcott's handwritten comments on them stating the ads were for "men seeking boys" — ruling against the human rights commission.

It found that it was unreasonable to find the second two flyers "contain expression that a reasonable person … would find as exposing or likely to expose persons of same-sex orientation to detestation and vilification."

Whatcott’s is the latest in a string of court challenges that have helped shape Canada’s free speech and hate crime laws, as well as their interpretation by the courts.

Here are several other notable cases that have helped set precedent for how the legal system balances what is considered a hate crime and what constitutes freedom of speech.

When is it hate speech?: 7 significant Canadian cases - Canada - CBC News

Back in the 90's, a German immigrant was deported because of the promotion of hate speech. He believed that the Holocaust did not happen and pushed his beliefs onto his students.

There are very few cases in which hate speech goes as far as the Supreme Court. Not agreeing with gay marriage does not constitute hate.
 
Back
Top Bottom