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Thread: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It is a false analogy!! It's like me saying since certain pro-life members bomb abortion clinics killing workers there under the justification they are stopping murderers, therefore ALL pro-life members are murderous psycho-bombers. It's like me saying since some fundamentalist Christians think every single word in their particular version of the Bible is direct from God, therefore ALL Christians believe the world was created 6,000 years ago.

    Your point is not validated by using NAMBLA as the basis for any argument.
    Yes it is a valid point to include the history of organizations that were part of the gay rights movement in the beginning. I have never claimed all agreed with NAMBLA but that NAMBLA was part of their organizations for decades. To deny that is being intellectually dishonest.

    History

    Events such as Anita Bryant's "Save Our Children" campaign in 1977, and a police raid of Toronto-area gay newspaper The Body Politic for publishing "Men Loving Boys Loving Men" set the stage for the founding of NAMBLA.[5]

    In December 1977, police raided a house in the Boston suburb of Revere. Twenty-four men were arrested and indicted on over 100 felony counts of the statutory rape of boys aged eight to fifteen. Suffolk County District Attorney Garrett Byrne found that the men used drugs and video games to lure the boys into a house, where they photographed them as they engaged in sexual activity. The men were members of a "sex ring", and said that the arrest was only "the tip of the iceberg."[5] The arrests sparked intense media coverage, and local newspapers published the photographs and personal information of the accused men. The "Boston-Boise Committee", a gay rights organization, formed in response to these events and to protect the "rights of gay men" and promote "gay solidarity." NAMBLA's founding was inspired by this gay rights organization.[11] It was co-founded by the gay historian David Thorstad.[12]

    In 1982 a NAMBLA member was falsely linked to the disappearance of Etan Patz. Although the accusation was groundless, the negative publicity was disastrous to the organization.[13] NAMBLA published a book documenting the events, A Witchhunt Foiled: The FBI vs. NAMBLA.[14]

    In testimony before the United States Senate, NAMBLA was exonerated from any criminal activities and it concluded "It is the pedophile with no organized affiliations who is the real threat to children,"[15]

    Mike Echols, the author of I Know My First Name is Steven, infiltrated NAMBLA and his observations are recorded in his book, published in 1991. At one point he published the names, addresses and phone numbers of 80 suspected NAMBLA members on his website, which lead to death threats towards people who were not members.[5]

    In 1994 NAMBLA was expelled from the International Lesbian and Gay Association, having been the first US based organization to be a member.[12] Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys was produced and directed by Adi Sideman in 1994. Members of NAMBLA were interviewed and presented defenses of the organization. Allen Ginsberg appeared in the film.[16]

    In 2000, Robert and Barbara Curley sued NAMBLA for the wrongful death of their son. A NAMBLA founder speculated that the case would "break our backs, even if we win, which we will."[5] The suit was eventually dismissed. Media reports from 2006 have suggested that for practical purposes the group no longer exists and that it consists only of a web site maintained by a few enthusiasts.[17]

    Relations with LGBT organizations

    The first documented opposition from LGBT organizations to NAMBLA occurred in the conference that organized the first gay march on Washington in 1979.[18]

    In 1980 a group called the "Lesbian Caucus – Lesbian & Gay Pride March Committee" distributed a hand-out urging women to split from the annual New York City Gay Pride March because the organizing committee had supposedly been dominated by NAMBLA and its supporters.[18] The next year, after some lesbians threatened to picket, the Cornell University gay group Gay PAC (Gay People at Cornell) rescinded its invitation to NAMBLA founder David Thorstad to be the keynote speaker at the annual May Gay Festival.[18] In the following years, gay rights groups attempted to block NAMBLA’s participation in gay pride parades, prompting leading gay rights figure Harry Hay to wear a sign proclaiming "NAMBLA walks with me" as he participated in a 1986 gay pride march in Los Angeles.[19]

    By the mid-1980s, NAMBLA was virtually alone in its positions and found itself politically isolated. Gay rights organizations, burdened by accusations of child recruitment and child abuse, had abandoned the radicalism of their early years and had "retreat[ed] from the idea of a more inclusive politics,"[20] opting instead to appeal more to the mainstream. Support for "groups perceived as being on the fringe of the gay community," such as NAMBLA, vanished in the process.[20]

    In 1994 the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) adopted a "Position Statement Regarding NAMBLA" saying GLAAD "deplores the North American Man Boy Love Association's (NAMBLA) goals, which include advocacy for sex between adult men and boys and the removal of legal protections for children. These goals constitute a form of child abuse and are repugnant to GLAAD." Also in 1994 the Board of Directors of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) adopted a resolution on NAMBLA that said: "NGLTF condemns all abuse of minors, both sexual and any other kind, perpetrated by adults. Accordingly, NGLTF condemns the organizational goals of NAMBLA and any other such organization."

    In 1994 NAMBLA, along with many members of the Gay Liberation Front participated in the "The Spirit of Stonewall" march which commenorated the 1969 Stonewall Riots.[21]

    In 1994, Pat Califia[22] argued that politics played an important role in the gay community's rejection of NAMBLA, however, Califia has since completely repudiated his earlier support for NAMBLA.[23]

    The International Lesbian and Gay Association controversy

    In 1993, the International Lesbian and Gay Association achieved United Nations consultative status. NAMBLA's membership in ILGA drew heavy criticism and caused the suspension of ILGA. Many gay organizations called for the ILGA to dissolve ties with NAMBLA. Republican Senator Jesse Helms proposed a bill to withhold $119 million in U.N. contributions until U.S. President Bill Clinton could certify that "no UN agency grants any official status, accreditation, or recognition to any organization which promotes, condones, or seeks the legalization of pedophilia, that is, the sexual abuse of children". The bill was unanimously approved by Congress and signed into law by Clinton in April 1994.

    IN 1994, ILGA expelled NAMBLA and two other groups (MARTIJN and Project Truth) because they were judged to be "groups whose predominant aim is to support or promote pedophilia." Although ILGA removed NAMBLA, the U.N. reversed its decision to grant ILGA special consultative status. Repeated attempts by ILGA to reacquire special status with the U.N. were eventually successful in 2006.[24]

    Gregory King of the Human Rights Campaign later said that "NAMBLA is not a gay organization ... They are not part of our community and we thoroughly reject their efforts to insinuate that pedophilia is an issue related to gay and lesbian civil rights."[25] NAMBLA responded by claiming that "man/boy love is by definition homosexual," that "man/boy lovers are part of the gay movement and central to gay history and culture," and that "homosexuals denying that it is 'not gay' to be attracted to adolescent boys are just as ludicrous as heterosexuals saying it's 'not heterosexual' to be attracted to adolescent girls."[25]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...ve_Association

    This article shows certain organizations within the gay movement putting pressure on other organizations within the gay movement with ties to NAMBLA to break them at the same time connecting the ties to NAMBLA with certain gay rights organizations nationally and internationally.

    Now you and others continue to go back to my NAMBLA statement as not being valid. Well clearly the organization had ties to the gay rights movement. Deal with it. It seems you all are using the NAMBLA issue to avoid discussing how laws on discrimination and Gay marriage are affecting us now and the affects they will have in the future.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Sugar booger? LOL

    My point is that YOUR point has no value in this discussion. NAMBLA is not a "Gay Rights" organization, and has never actually been one, despite citing the actions of one gay activist.

    I am not gay and I was not overly fond of that orientation when I was younger. However, even I misunderstood the position of NAMBLA back when it first got started. From what little I knew I thought that it was just a group supporting lowering teenage age of consent laws for same-sex relationships. I had no idea that they advocated pre-pubescent sexual activities. Once that was clearly discovered, they lost all credibility with everyone except their own twisted fellow-travelers.

    Bringing up this "history" serves what purpose? It clearly has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. It is nothing but an attempt to denegrate the whole by the actions of a very very few.
    How could these people be "twisted" if everyone should be allowed to "marry who they love" as those who push gay marriage keep saying? Myself, I don't buy into that nonsense but the gay right special rights activists keep saying it.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    How could these people be "twisted" if everyone should be allowed to "marry who they love" as those who push gay marriage keep saying? Myself, I don't buy into that nonsense but the gay right special rights activists keep saying it.
    Do you understand legal consent? I'm guessing not.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Do you understand legal consent? I'm guessing not.
    How long have you been a member of NAMBLA? Myself, I think it's sick and disgusting for 10 or 12 year old to be able to legally consent to marriage to say a 30 year old even though that's "who they love". Why don't you?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    How long have you been a member of NAMBLA? Myself, I think it's sick and disgusting for 10 or 12 year old to be able to legally consent to marriage to say a 30 year old even though that's "who they love". Why don't you?
    Oh dear god he never said anything of the sort

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    How long have you been a member of NAMBLA? Myself, I think it's sick and disgusting for 10 or 12 year old to be able to legally consent to marriage to say a 30 year old even though that's "who they love". Why don't you?
    Excuse me? Please show me where I supported NAMBLA. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? YOU were the one asking how these people could be twisted and allowed to marry the ones they love (Hence why I quoted you).

    I asked if you understood legal consent, you clearly do not. 10-12 year olds cannot give legal consent, so their relationship with an adult is ILLEGAL. Your slippery slope argument is a lousy one in regards to gay rights.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Excuse me? Please show me where I supported NAMBLA. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? YOU were the one asking how these people could be twisted and allowed to marry the ones they love (Hence why I quoted you).

    I asked if you understood legal consent, you clearly do not. 10-12 year olds cannot give legal consent, so their relationship with an adult is ILLEGAL. Your slippery slope argument is a lousy one in regards to gay rights.
    No, no, It is you that has the reading comprehension problem. I asked a question to Captain Adverse about a statement he made. My question was in reference to what he wrote. You jumped in, quick on the trigger trying to make your point. I responded to your smart a**ed answer in relation to the context of the question I asked Captain Adverse. You never bothered to separate anything in the smart a** answer you sent to me so my reply to you was likewise.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    I give it 10 years before Democrats start trying to normalize pedophilia. I've already posted an article that sets the groundwork for it.

    They'll pump out the propaganda science articles, claiming it "might be genetic" or "chemical". Pedophiles can't help it. They are wired that way. We must have tolerance. They are victims. Gays apparently are "more equal" than polygamists, pedophiles, transgender (changing soon. They will be the next angels we have to adore. We will start to see transgendered characters in sitcoms. It will be taught in school as special and wonderful. It's already happening now)

    We've gone from gays demanding right to Christians now being targeted and harassed for their beliefs. Freedom of Speech is a one way street on Authoritarian Ave.

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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    38 pages in and nobody can say what the factual NEGATIVE consequences of equal rights for gays is

    weird, i wonder why
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    Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    38 pages in and nobody can say what the factual NEGATIVE consequences of equal rights for gays is

    weird, i wonder why
    I've certainly given a number of examples of what people are experiencing in their states after the passage of same sex marriage. From Religious run adoption organizations who in rights of conscience believe a child needs to be in a home with a mother and a father and a federal judge ruled they will have to accept same sex couples for adoption. The adoption organization could not do that so are now closed.

    Parents suing a school board over elementary children being introduced to homosexual curriculum and wanted their children exempted from the classes. Federal judge ruled no and told the parents if they don't like it go start their own school.

    There have been cases as of late where federal judges have trampled the right of conscience over not willing to supply services in relation to weddings to gays and being charged with discrimination for it.

    Same-sex marriage is a new family form. Same-sex marriage and marriage alternatives are producing more change in family law, laws in discrimination, and these new laws are affecting traditional families not just by law but in culture. It's still unknown what the total affects of it will be but what has changed for traditional families, socially, economically, and in religious freedoms has been a real negative. Enough of a negative for those who have not yet passed gay marriage in their state, should think long and hard.
    Last edited by vesper; 09-09-13 at 05:39 PM.

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