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San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure[W:208]

Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Actually, libertarianism lines up with environmentalism rather well. So it would really depend on all the conditions of your nuclear dump.

Can you hire someone to spank your kid? Sure, give all the previously stated restriction to such act. I'm not sure who would buy such a tape, but perhaps the sale of such can be considered.
Okay. Now, I live on a very nice block, good houses, nice cars, but I find it boring. Can I paint my house to look like a Rainbow Bright doll?
19915.jpg


And put a a giant doll head on my roof?
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Okay. Now, I live on a very nice block, good houses, nice cars, but I find it boring. Can I paint my house to look like a Rainbow Bright doll?
19915.jpg


And put a a giant doll head on my roof?

I wouldn't likely have a problem with it in and of itself, but if you signed a Home Owners Association contract, they may have something to say about it.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

I wouldn't likely have a problem with it in and of itself, but if you signed a Home Owners Association contract, they may have something to say about it.
Okay, but there isn't a contract yet the guy next door claims he can't sell his house or get a loan for its true value because of me? Doesn't he have the right to the full value of his property? Now what?
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Excuse are telling me as I just believe you did, that I can discriminate but don't get caught? Yes that makes sense. And you are ok with that. What a hypocrite. In order for me to preserve my freedom of association I have to temporarily suspend my freedom of speech. That makes a lot of sense. Really it does. :roll: Especially in a free country.

All of those laws and ordinances are unconstitutional. The judges who ruled that they were constitutional, are twits and flat wrong. The Constitution is VERY clear on this.

I would prefer not lie. But twits like you push me into that corner so I have to get an attorney and make sure to phase my rejections properly so as not to "appear" discriminatory. That's just sad I have to do that to begin with. I would prefer to just say "I don't like you, now get the **** out." That way we both know were we stand. You push rules that are worthless in all but the most blatant cases. That's persecution via the law over a perceived slight. That is all that is. You can say its about preventing discrimination when all you really are doing is restricting speech and taking revenge for some slight. Last I checked there is no right to not be butt hurt over a perceived slight. How about this, you think the racial groups like say La Raza would be upset if I sued THEM so I could be apart of their racial organization, even though it is blatantly discriminatory one? How about I sue the Black Panthers, think they would enjoy having a white brother amongst themselves? You know what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How about I sue and claim discrimination at the big ag farms and brokerage houses because they will only hire Hispanic trucking firms.

By the way discrimination is NOT a crime, it is a civil matter determined by civil litigation. You CANT press charges. Pray it NEVER becomes a crime. As the Chinese like to say be careful what you wish for.

I believe in freedom. What you believe in is the absolute antithesis of that. We are destined to disagree vigorously.

Yeah, poor you having to justify why you discriminate. You have it so bad. How about the freedom to pursue a livelihood?
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

I think that what you laid out is a very rare occurrence and if people employ intelligent consumerism wouldn't happen. But as murder is a possible outcome of gun rights, this too may be an outcome of property rights. Though it could very easily be made against the law to not render medical aid when medical aid is needed, as that would infringe upon one's right to life. Not that it would help the police. Now if your gay groom was diabetic and needed the cake to live, perhaps we could talk about higher moral ramifications; but I think you know that wasn't the case.

so im guessing you answer is YES, that is what you want to empower

sorry i do not and im glade precedence, laws and cases also do not
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

The practice of contract is oft double edged. But I fear I am no expert in the field you are discussing here, and it can lead to misunderstandings and confusions. In essence if the government owned the property that a corporation was seeking to buy, they could put in certain restrictions and rights to access by the community. Publicly traded and corporations could very well be treated differently than private business given their innate public properties. As I stated earlier, there could be argument that publicaly traded companies follow the same restrictions as government is forced to endure. I'm not sure that answered your question though.

Yes, that answered it. I just wondered if you would view corporate structures as being the same thing as proprietorships.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.)Excuse are telling me as I just believe you did, that I can discriminate but don't get caught? Yes that makes sense.
2.)And you are ok with that. What a hypocrite.
3.) In order for me to preserve my freedom of association I have to temporarily suspend my freedom of speech. That makes a lot of sense. Really it does. :roll: Especially in a free country.
4.)All of those laws and ordinances are unconstitutional. The judges who ruled that they were constitutional, are twits and flat wrong. The Constitution is VERY clear on this.
5.) I would prefer not lie. But twits like you push me into that corner so I have to get an attorney and make sure to phase my rejections properly so as not to "appear" discriminatory. That's just sad I have to do that to begin with. I would prefer to just say "I don't like you, now get the **** out." That way we both know were we stand. You push rules that are worthless in all but the most blatant cases. That's persecution via the law over a perceived slight. That is all that is.
6.)You can say its about preventing discrimination when all you really are doing is restricting speech and taking revenge for some slight. Last I checked there is no right to not be butt hurt over a perceived slight.
7.) How about this, you think the racial groups like say La Raza would be upset if I sued THEM so I could be apart of their racial organization, even though it is blatantly discriminatory one? How about I sue the Black Panthers, think they would enjoy having a white brother amongst themselves? You know what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How about I sue and claim discrimination at the big ag farms and brokerage houses because they will only hire Hispanic trucking firms.
8.)By the way discrimination is NOT a crime, it is a civil matter determined by civil litigation. You CANT press charges. Pray it NEVER becomes a crime. As the Chinese like to say be careful what you wish for.
9.)I believe in freedom. What you believe in is the absolute antithesis of that. We are destined to disagree vigorously.

1.) yes, gave me examples of how you an discriminate and not get caught
2.) lol try not to make stuff up, "im" not personally ok with that but if your not actually breaking the law what can i do about it. but please, feel free to make stuff up
3.) yes it makes perfect sense in a free country where the saying goes your rights to swing your fists end at my nose. There are lots of rights that get temporarily suspended based preventing infringement on others. See the OP, see 100s of court cases and precedence. this isnt new its basic and how things work.
4.) you are welcome to have that opinion but you got no facts that support you at all. on the other side theres ordinances, the law, state constitutions, the constitution all the procedures making and enforcing them all and all the cases defending them and making precedence for them all. vs your opinion

all go with the former
5.) makes me proud you feel this way, people who cant be civil in public, follow the rules, laws and respect others rights are exactly what these laws are for and im glad it paints you in a corner.
6.)you are free to this OPINION too but its factually false, but feel free to make up whatever story you want that helps you feel better, facts dont care
7.) please use actual parallel and examples that make logical sense. and also please educate yourself on topics like this also.Depending on which black panther party you want to discuss they had white members.

but if you actually catch your breath in between rants, feel free to pursue anything you know is breaking the law thats what you are supposed to do.

8.) wrong again it is not always just a civil matter
9.) your post and ranting proves otherwise, seem you believe in infringing rights and empowering bigotry and discrimination. not thanks that's not what this country does.
Cant wait to read your nest rant though.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Moderator's Warning:
There is some baiting going on here as well as personal comments. Please leave those out and stick to the topic.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

crap.. edited due to moderator warning.

I can't have ANY fun.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Yeah, poor you having to justify why you discriminate. You have it so bad. How about the freedom to pursue a livelihood?

You have it. Now go pursue you livelihood. I do. Its the reason I am self employed, so I may do so unfettered.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Yes, I do know. You are attempting to assign a modern definition to sodomy that was unknown in biblical times. You do this to take away the shame and disgust rightly assigned to this lifestyle.

You don't even know what the story of Sodom and Gommorah was actually about. You would prefer to remain ignorant on this issue because of your anti-gay bias. I find it amazing at what lies the belief in a false agenda such as yours will make someone believe.

And, btw... we are discussing sodomy in modern times. Therefore, a modern definition is appropriate.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.) yes, gave me examples of how you an discriminate and not get caught
2.) lol try not to make stuff up, "im" not personally ok with that but if your not actually breaking the law what can i do about it. but please, feel free to make stuff up
3.) yes it makes perfect sense in a free country where the saying goes your rights to swing your fists end at my nose. There are lots of rights that get temporarily suspended based preventing infringement on others. See the OP, see 100s of court cases and precedence. this isnt new its basic and how things work.
4.) you are welcome to have that opinion but you got no facts that support you at all. on the other side theres ordinances, the law, state constitutions, the constitution all the procedures making and enforcing them all and all the cases defending them and making precedence for them all. vs your opinion

all go with the former
5.) makes me proud you feel this way, people who cant be civil in public, follow the rules, laws and respect others rights are exactly what these laws are for and im glad it paints you in a corner.
6.)you are free to this OPINION too but its factually false, but feel free to make up whatever story you want that helps you feel better, facts dont care
7.) please use actual parallel and examples that make logical sense. and also please educate yourself on topics like this also.Depending on which black panther party you want to discuss they had white members.

but if you actually catch your breath in between rants, feel free to pursue anything you know is breaking the law thats what you are supposed to do.

8.) wrong again it is not always just a civil matter
9.) your post and ranting proves otherwise, seem you believe in infringing rights and empowering bigotry and discrimination. not thanks that's not what this country does.
Cant wait to read your nest rant though.

Post the law that says its a criminal matter. I am aware of no law that states this. Any attorneys reading ought to jump in and enlighten us.

Its my opinion as I stated that the laws and judicial rulings in these matters are wrong with rare exception. Forcing me to do business with you is unconstitutional. That's the way I see and always will. I will change my mind the day the constitution is changed regarding this issue, till then I remain entrenched with my opinion. Jerry is right. This USED to be a nation of laws. Its not anymore.

Making what exactly up?

Sorry the way I see it, taking revenge for perceived slight or simple activism is what this anti discrimination crap is all about. That and looting people's hard earned money.

I am not surprised you take delight at theft of peoples rights, time, money and property. Its called schadenfreud.

You want peoples rights respected you claim, but you want to run roughshod over two of the most important and that's freedom of association and freedom of speech. Like I said before hypocritical. Rights are respected or they are not. My rights end at your nose you are very much correct. Your rights to my services end when I say NO. You can demand all you want. But you have no right to them.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Hehe, CC, poor CC... Are you serious with this argument? Differences in epimarks... LOL Boy reach much, and to top it off you're reaching in the completely wrong direction. There are no biological differences in identical twins, and any generational or inter-generational expressions are widely speculative. even so, let's assume you're on to something specific to twin studies, epimarks cannot explain nor can they be identified or verified as having occurred at all. Basically what you have is a purely speculative attempt to convey significance in epimark gene expression and associate it with a controversial issue that the gay lobby cannot explain away, and that is that twins show that there is a very low chance that homosexuality is genetic in any meaningful way other than providing the hardware we all seem to also share. try again.. My God even in your own article there was no conclusions, nor was there any affirmative language, the article was filled with words like "may", "appears", "could", "possibly", and this is what you post to say that it is proven? Where's your buddy AGENTJ to tell you that you haven't proven anything? ;)

Apparently, Tim, you don't pay attention to modern research. This does not surprise me, especially when that modern research negatively affects your position. This is known as "confirmation bias" a logical fallacy of which you often suffer.

Here you go, Tim:

Identical Twins' DNA Varies | LiveScience

You are debunked. How many times does this now make it that I have done so with you? 100?


Apparently not so fast eh?

Actually, quite easy. You shouldn't have stuck your nose in here. You just got on the standard "CC humiliates his opponents" train.

Yes, and I've provided an interview with the very people that were involved with the change in the DSM several times and you always seem to move on from the thread at that point. The science used to remove the DSM was not science at all and consisted of a whole 25 subjects who were completely comfortable with their homosexuality if memory serves, that answered a standardized mental health questionnaire and the researchers took those questionnaire to other psychologists and asked them if they could pick out the gay ones. Add in some inkblot tests and that's the totality of the science involved in removing the classification, and although it was removed it wasn't completely removed until later on as you know.

See, Tim, this just shows that you don't even understand the study at all. I have thoroughly debunked you each and every time we have discussed this issue. Easy, too. Between demonstrating both the rationale and the validity of Hooker's study and quoting people who were at the 1973 meeting where the science of sexual orientation was presented, you have always proven to have nothing to refute me.

Always good to see you on the train.

For anyone really interested in hearing about how homosexuality was removed by a study that was done by the grand-daughter of the then president of the APA, who also happened to be a closet gay himself, feel free to click this link. It should put to rest the question even being a matter of opinion. It was clearly political.: 81 Words | This American Life

read both act one and act two.. Enjoy!

And for anyone truly interested in knowing how and why homosexuality was removed as a disorder, you can read my treatment of the issue, supplied with links and references. If I were you, I would ignore the fiction that is in the link that Tim provided. Most of the participants are people who's integrity on this issue have been thoroughly debunked. I mean really, Tim... Bieber? :lol: His study was completely debunked and is worthless. Socarides? Virtulant anti-gay bigot. Sure... no bias there. I always enjoy your links, Tim. They should be placed in the fantasy section of the internet.

Here are links to my treatment of the declassifying of homosexuality. It is filled with history and describes what actually happened from the people there:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/168582-homosexuality-mental-illness-went-away-w-335-a.html#post1062140636
http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/168582-homosexuality-mental-illness-went-away-w-335-a.html#post1062140638
http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-and-sexuality/168582-homosexuality-mental-illness-went-away-w-335-a.html#post1062140640

Bronson I suggest you bookmark this site as CC seems to say you've been debunked many times, when we all know that's not the case. Nice to be able to throw this in his face you'll see how quickly he leaves you alone after that. ;)


Tim-

Suggestion, Bronson. NEVER use any of Tim's links to support your position. I regularly make a mockery of what he posts and of every link he provides. Unless you want me to do the same thing to you, avoid them at all costs.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.)Post the law that says its a criminal matter. I am aware of no law that states this. Any attorneys reading ought to jump in and enlighten us.

2.)Its my opinion as I stated that the laws and judicial rulings in these matters are wrong with rare exception. Forcing me to do business with you is unconstitutional. That's the way I see and always will. I will change my mind the day the constitution is changed regarding this issue, till then I remain entrenched with my opinion. Jerry is right. This USED to be a nation of laws. Its not anymore.
3.)Making what exactly up?
4.) Sorry the way I see it, taking revenge for perceived slight or simple activism is what this anti discrimination crap is all about. That and looting people's hard earned money.
5.) I am not surprised you take delight at theft of peoples rights, time, money and property. Its called schadenfreud.
6.)You want peoples rights respected you claim, but you want to run roughshod over two of the most important and that's freedom of association and freedom of speech. Like I said before hypocritical. Rights are respected or they are not. My rights end at your nose you are very much correct. Your rights to my services end when I say NO. You can demand all you want. But you have no right to them.

1.) dont know i could be mistaken, id have to look it up amused when its found to violate the constitution it would be criminal
2.) like i said you are free to have that opinion support by nothing esle but more opinion but il stick with the facts and all the ordinances, laws, state constitutions, the constitution, all the procedures making and enforcing them all and all the cases defending them and making precedence for them all. vs your opinion
3.) you factually made up im OK with discrimination and Its about revenge
4.) see it anyway you want it, reread #2 and facts prove you wrong because the fact is making the blanket statement its about revenge is wrong, Nothing will change that fact.
5.) more baseless opinion and making stuff up, you fail again
6.) read 2 again, your OPINION vs Facts. Ill go with facts. Thank you for not disappointing, i knew your next post would be a entertaining rant. cant wait for the next.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Really?

So then when did this occur? What was the world population when this adaptation took place. Feel free to include all your research.

Hey you are the one that says you KNOW there is NO gay gene. As soon as you include all your research, I can show you mine.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.) dont know i could be mistaken, id have to look it up amused when its found to violate the constitution it would be criminal
2.) like i said you are free to have that opinion support by nothing esle but more opinion but il stick with the facts and all the ordinances, laws, state constitutions, the constitution, all the procedures making and enforcing them all and all the cases defending them and making precedence for them all. vs your opinion
3.) you factually made up im OK with discrimination and Its about revenge
4.) see it anyway you want it, reread #2 and facts prove you wrong because the fact is making the blanket statement its about revenge is wrong, Nothing will change that fact.
5.) more baseless opinion and making stuff up, you fail again
6.) read 2 again, your OPINION vs Facts. Ill go with facts. Thank you for not disappointing, i knew your next post would be a entertaining rant. cant wait for the next.

Are you typing on a phone? You sentence structure seems disjointed. Its hard to track your sentences.

1) Again how is it a criminal matter, what laws declare it so. Certainly the text of the Constitution has no declarations of discrimination being a criminal matter. Its always been a civil matter unless it involved in direct conjunction with criminal action such as theft murder ect. under hate crimes legislation.
I said before I know of no statute that's makes discrimination a criminal matter. You seem to know of one, so present it. Discrimination in and of itself is a civil matter.

We are always going to see this differently and are going to work against each other. Your side is winning now. That is temporary. Things change. They always do.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.)Are you typing on a phone? You sentence structure seems disjointed. Its hard to track your sentences.

2.) Again how is it a criminal matter, what laws declare it so. Certainly the text of the Constitution has no declarations of discrimination being a criminal matter. Its always been a civil matter unless it involved in direct conjunction with criminal action such as theft murder ect. under hate crimes legislation.
I said before I know of no statute that's makes discrimination a criminal matter. You seem to know of one, so present it. Discrimination in and of itself is a civil matter.

3.)We are always going to see this differently and are going to work against each other. Your side is winning now. That is temporary. Things change. They always do.

1.) sometimes i am but usually its just because im muilti-tasking and i treat this place like texting
2.) AGAIN read my answer i already answered you lol Here it is again "I dont know i could be mistaken, id have to look it up I assumed when its found to violate the constitution it would be criminal"
what dont you understand
3.) yes we are because i have no desire at all to empower bigots, racists, misogynistic and discrimination.
like i asid you kepp your opinion and ill go with facts and all the ordinances, laws, state constitutions, the constitution, all the procedures making and enforcing them all and all the cases defending them and making precedence for them all.

good luck
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Why isn't this in the right forum?
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

it is in the right forum, if you disagree report it and let us know how it works out
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

We are always going to see this differently and are going to work against each other. Your side is winning now. That is temporary. Things change. They always do.

Your side was winning at first. There was a big push and got things like DOMA and Prop 8 passed. Then the change happened. The change was that equality became popular again. That change already happened.

If you're talking about a greater change when we start to collapse as a civilization and people instinctively turn to authoritarian and religious rule to feel safe . . . well, I hope that's not too soon.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

Your side was winning at first. There was a big push and got things like DOMA and Prop 8 passed. Then the change happened. The change was that equality became popular again. That change already happened.

If you're talking about a greater change when we start to collapse as a civilization and people instinctively turn to authoritarian and religious rule to feel safe . . . well, I hope that's not too soon.

I don't want religious or authoritarian rule I want to be left alone from both sides. This is a freedom thing for me. Always has been. People assume I am some sort of bigot because I argue against the sort stupidity like hate crimes and suing people to make them DO something they ought naught have to do because somebody thinks they are being discriminated against. The fact a court presumes to force somebody to take pictures or make a cake for someone they obviously don't want to is sad. I guess you could say my side is the original constitutional side.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.) sometimes i am but usually its just because im muilti-tasking and i treat this place like texting
2.) AGAIN read my answer i already answered you lol Here it is again "I dont know i could be mistaken, id have to look it up I assumed when its found to violate the constitution it would be criminal"
what dont you understand
3.) yes we are because i have no desire at all to empower bigots, racists, misogynistic and discrimination.
like i asid you kepp your opinion and ill go with facts and all the ordinances, laws, state constitutions, the constitution, all the procedures making and enforcing them all and all the cases defending them and making precedence for them all.

good luck

I have no desire to be told to serve or associate someone I don't want to. That includes damn near everyone on this planet. This is freedom thing for me.
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

I have no desire to be told to serve or associate someone I don't want to. That includes damn near everyone on this planet. This is freedom thing for me.

Then buy a deserted island, move there and crown yourself king.

Until then, you'll obey the laws of the land, or pay the penalty for breaking them
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.)I have no desire to be told to serve or associate someone I don't want to. That includes damn near everyone on this planet. This is freedom thing for me.

1.) nobody is telling you to serve or associate with anybody
2.) lots of places in the US where you can live with basically no people around then since you have issues with society
3.) and in the US luckily you have that freedom
 
Re: San Antonio Adopts Disputed Gay Rights Measure

1.) nobody is telling you to serve or associate with anybody
2.) lots of places in the US where you can live with basically no people around then since you have issues with society
3.) and in the US luckily you have that freedom

Wrong the courts have issued rulings which you support, telling people they have to associate and serve people they don't wish to. The two cases being discussed here, the Wedding cake case and the photography case. Those rulings are forcible association and servitude.
 
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