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Thread: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm thrilled that we might have our allies bankroll our operation. Salaries, fuel, and munitions are expensive. Where is this outrage coming from?
    Those counties have their own armies.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Everyone who was equally insulted by the Japanese doing the same in 1991 raise your hand?
    My history recall sucks. What exactly happened in 1991? Perhaps a couple of key words I could use to google and educate myself?

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    My history recall sucks. What exactly happened in 1991? Perhaps a couple of key words I could use to google and educate myself?
    First Gulf War.

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]The House’s Syria hearing: Live updates
    This might change things.
    Is our Army for hire?
    Yeah, well, most Arab countries don't like leaders that Tolerate other religions.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    They could just hire Blackwater i guess

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    My history recall sucks. What exactly happened in 1991? Perhaps a couple of key words I could use to google and educate myself?
    well, you could try : "Operation Desert Storm"

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well, you could try : "Operation Desert Storm"
    Yeah, I thought it was some obscure skirmish that my aging brain couldn't recall, lol! That was a coalition with a lot of members, and quite a few of them contributed to the war cost, to drive out the invasion of one of our allies.

    Syria isn't nearly the same. Syria is not an ally, there is no coalition, the UN doesn't give a damn, almost none of our allies give a damn, and I would not like to see Saudi Arabia purchasing our military on a mercenary basis strictly to protect its own natural interest.

    So I guess in response to your question, no I didn't feel the same about Japan, France, UK, SA, UAE, Korea or any of the other coalition members that helped shoulder the cost of that action.

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Yeah, I thought it was some obscure skirmish that my aging brain couldn't recall, lol!
    it happens to all of us.

    That was a coalition with a lot of members
    Actually there were fewer than there were in the Coalition of the Willing that Bush II put together for Operation Iraqi Freedom. For consistencies' sake - what was your opinion at the time of "US Unilateralism" charges?

    , and quite a few of them contributed to the war cost, to drive out the invasion of one of our allies.
    Yup. And some of those contributions (for example, Japan's) came in the form of money, rather than military forces.

    Syria isn't nearly the same. Syria is not an ally, there is no coalition
    Actually other nations have agreed to be on board if we go. That's what you call "a coalition".

    the UN doesn't give a damn,
    The UN's response to Iraq invading Kuwait was to impose economic sanctions, and the only reason that we haven't done so for Syria is because Russia and China vetoed the bill. So when you say that (relative to Gulf War I) "The UN doesn't give a damn", what you are really saying is "Russia protects its ally and China doesn't want to set a precedent that other nations shouldn't approve of a government cruelly abusing its own people". That's not exactly the strongest of counterarguments.

    almost none of our allies give a damn
    by which you mean "Britain doesn't want to fight"? Who is France, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia?

    and I would not like to see Saudi Arabia purchasing our military on a mercenary basis strictly to protect its own natural interest.
    They're not. They are offering to defray our costs, since that is one of the objections against it, because our interests in this matter are aligned. If our interests were not aligned - then they would be seeking to purchase our military services on a mercenary basis - but this is something that we are looking to do anyway. They are no more purchasing our military on a mercenary basis than Japan or Germany did in 1991, or we did to Britain in 1943, or any other combined effort where one side has fiscally helped out a partner nation.

    So I guess in response to your question, no I didn't feel the same about Japan, France, UK, SA, UAE, Korea or any of the other coalition members that helped shoulder the cost of that action.
    No. Because you are confusing your support of the military campaign itself with the nature of the particulars of its' funding.

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...
    No. Because you are confusing your support of the military campaign itself with the nature of the particulars of its' funding.
    Not true. I would not support going into Syria if we had half of Europe in a joint military coalition, and the U.N. joined hands and led them all in a rousing rendition of Kumbaya.

    I do not and will not support going into Syria because it's none of our business, and if/when Assad, who is an evil bastard who deserves a bullet in the brain, falls, the regime will very likely be taken over Islamists aligned with Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and the like. It's not like the revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya turned out well, since Islamists have either taken over those countries, or are still marching toward an Islamist coup. Syria would be no different.

    It's none of our freaking business. Period. Unfortunately, Obama's red-line speech and subsequent dithering have put us in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. The repercussions of striking Syria could be significant, as have been all of our ME meddling since the day Bush invaded Iraq, condemning the war in Afghanistan to a 10-yr exercise in failure as a result.

    I understand you are coming from a military mindset. I, however, am coming from a civilian mindset that is sick to death of belly bumping the world's dictators by spilling the blood of our soldiers. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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    Re: Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Not true. I would not support going into Syria if we had half of Europe in a joint military coalition, and the U.N. joined hands and led them all in a rousing rendition of Kumbaya.
    I believe you. What I am pointing out is that you are letting that support (or lack thereof) color you impression of the provision of financial vice order-of-battle resources to a combined military campaign.

    I do not and will not support going into Syria because it's none of our business, and if/when Assad, who is an evil bastard who deserves a bullet in the brain, falls, the regime will very likely be taken over Islamists aligned with Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and the like
    This is a bit.... er.... It's sort of like arguing that we shouldn't have fought WWII because it would have been the intellectual inheritors of the Enlightenment who won, either way.

    It's not like the revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya turned out well, since Islamists have either taken over those countries, or are still marching toward an Islamist coup. Syria would be no different.

    It's none of our freaking business. Period. Unfortunately, Obama's red-line speech and subsequent dithering have put us in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. The repercussions of striking Syria could be significant, as have been all of our ME meddling since the day Bush invaded Iraq, condemning the war in Afghanistan to a 10-yr exercise in failure as a result.
    the success/failure of the campaigns in both places is a matter for a separate thread - our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of success (or, at least, try to) is impressive.

    and what happens in Syria is definitely going to significantly effect our national interests. Especially given that the value of U.S. credibility is now on the line.

    I understand you are coming from a military mindset. I, however, am coming from a civilian mindset that is sick to death of belly bumping the world's dictators by spilling the blood of our soldiers. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
    Think about that for a second. What the heck are YOU sick to death of? How many dictators have you belly bumped? How many times have you left your family for months on end to go to awful places where the scenery explodes and takes your friends with it? What, precisely, are you so tired of? Hearing about it on television?

    I'll admit I have a military background, but I'm coming to this from a mindset of responsibility to protect - that's Samantha Powers, not George Patton. You know how everyone talked about oh how only if we had known in time about Rwanda? Oh if only we had known about the holocaust surely we would have joined WWII earlier? Well, we know about Syria. What is going on and going to be going on in that land is something that we and our descendants are going to be shamed of if we do not take steps now to stop or answer it. When we argue that the U.S. is a good guy, a force for good in the world, we are going to be asked "Well if that is so, what about Syria, where you didn't care?" and our response will be to hang our head and mumble about how "we didn't know..." well, we know. Claiming that we are rather tired of the whole "being America" thing right now and so can't be bothered is a piss-poor excuse.
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-07-13 at 12:01 AM.

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