Page 5 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 172

Thread: Obama: I didn't draw the red line on Syria, world did [W:162]

  1. #41
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,321

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's not about defending him. The use of chemical weapons is an international
    "red-line"....and supposedly the international community has decided that certain actions require a consequence.

    You also criticize him for Libya...and criticize him for taking more deliberation before going into Syria and getting Congressional support? The only thing confusing and nebulous is the conservative thought process.

    Nothing Confusing about MY Conservative thought process, I hold people to account for their actions.

    I noticed you bought into his nonsense, because you're attributing HIS redline, ( do I really need to quote what he said ? ) to the International Communities " redline".

    He DID NOT say, when the Syrians step over the redline the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY will have to "re-calculate" things.

    He said HE WOULD HAVE TO RE-CALCULATE things. It was his red line.

    And I brought up Libya becausr he went in alone. What redline did Khadafi step over ?

  2. #42
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,194

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm not defending him. I don't want strikes in Syria....I'm defending the fact he's going to Congress to seek approval.
    I'm defending the idea that the International community has condemned the use of chemical weapons and has supposedly drawn a red line...that the use of chemical weapons requires consequences.

    I'm nothing like conservatives that hooped and hollered and blindly followed the Bush administration into a ground invasion of Iraq.
    I'm pointing out criticisms of him I think are just wrong. I don't agree with him that the US is the default protector of international norms. I don't agree we should strike Syria. I also don't agree with Conservatives that somehow have turned into doves...I guess since 2008...well unless Obama doesn't act...then they are hawks.
    Usually, you're pretty logical, but this is just nonsense.

    If Obama was concerned about "doing the right thing" as you say, he would have announced to the American public and the world, a few weeks back, when the chemical attacks took place, that he was going to Congress to seek authorization for some targetted strikes against Syrian government assets. He would not have spent 10 days or so ramping up the military rhetoric, having his entire defense and foreign relations cabinet out on TV talking about an "eminent" strike" and even identifying the targets that were under discussion for attack.

    The only reason Obama is going to congress now is he doesn't have the backbone, the integrity, the force of character, to act on his own words now that he's out on that branch all by himself. While he had Cameron and Britain to prop up his weak knees, he could fake strength - without him, he ran for the cover of congressional authorization.

    If you can't see this plainly for what it is, then you are enabling one of the worst Presidents ever to be foisted onto the world stage.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #43
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,703

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Really? You think Congress will enhance its reputation by standing behind the words of a spineless President who can't even manage the courage to stand behind his own words? You think the international community does anything but laugh now when they hear the buffoon speak? And the American public's reputation was lost when after four years of this clown in office they choose to reelect him.
    Yes, they will retain their reputation down the line, and yes, I think some laugh (our usual anti-American suspects), but no, I am not going to be a partisan hack on this one.

    American: Yes, it was a political calculation. No, striking Iran is not realistically on anyone's favorite list (including Romney's, if you listened carefully).

    Yes, I get it. It's cute to attack the President on this, but let's be honest. He was going to be weak if he didn't set a standard. Then he was going to be weak if he didn't act. Then he was going to be going beyond the scope of his authority if he did not ask the Congress for permission. Then he was going to be ineffective if he did not do enough damage. He was going to be a warmonger if he put boots on the ground. He was going to be setting an incredible world-wide precedent if he let the dictator just walk away from employing chemical weapons on his population before the whole world. No matter how we split this one, it was not going to be pretty. I think all things considered, the Congress needs to support this measure, and the President must strike. Griping about it won't do us much good.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Arlington, tx
    Last Seen
    10-08-13 @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    362

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    “We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” the president said a year ago last week. “That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.”

    Once again we see the right try to pin something on him.

  5. #45
    Educator
    rjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:50 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,139

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    I think most people here will agree that the use of chemical weapons on your own population is a heinous act. The International community long ago agreed that should such an event occur it would move to stop it. Thus the talk here of the International Community's red line. The President of the United States also made a comment about their being a Red Line when it comes to this issue.

    The probloem in this situation is
    1. This really need to be reaction of the Internationaol Community under the umbrella of the U.N., much like Afganistan was.
    2. As long as Russia has a veto that is not likely to happen.
    3. Although we can say the Assaid regime is the baddies. We do not know or trust anyone in the opposition to be the goodies.

    The International community is very concerned about appearing to help out any of the opposition forces who could easily end up being just as bad or worse than the current regime.

    In principle all western democracies fundementally oppose and are appalled by what has happened. In practical terms - nothing will be done about it.
    Time flies like an arrow; fruitflies like a banana. - Groucho

  6. #46
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,213

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Yea sure you are

    You have about as much credibility as Obama does at this point
    Ehhh..ok whatever...I was against the intervention in Libya as well. I'm pretty dovish when it comes to military intervention but whatever conforms to your make believe narrative.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  7. #47
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,194

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Yes, I get it. It's cute to attack the President on this, but let's be honest. He was going to be weak if he didn't set a standard.
    Do you know why he set that standard - the red line standard? It was because more than two years ago, when Syria was first started to explode, when it was just Syrian young people, Syrian reformers who were protesting and were being slaughtered by Assad, it was then when American intervention may have actually had a serious impact and a good outcome and Obama did nothing. It was then when the media kept asking him what would it take to get America involved in the slaughter of innocent lives in Syria and Obama tossed out the red line statement.

    Since that time, upwards of 100,000 Syrian people, mostly innocents, have been slaughtered by one side or the other and now Obama finds his words coming back to haunt him, as they should. Why are the 1,500 people killed by chemical weapons last month more important than the thousands killed by chemical weapons the other times before? Why are they more important than the other 100,000 killed by bombs in residential areas, etc?

    Maybe Obama has an affinity for Assad and bombing innocent people since his drone program is no better and perhaps worse since it kills innocent people in other countries not his own.

    Syria is basically a lost cause now because of inaction on the international stage, much to the disgrace of Obama and his administration. He basically said he didn't care unless and until the Assad regime used chemical weapons.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #48
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,684

    Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    He's attempting to put pressure on the Congress to do its job in legitimizing his action. By losing the UK, having a skeptical public, and without UN support, the President is more or less trying to put the ball in their court. Yes, it's a political calculation, and some things could have been handled better, but this was the right political calculation and it needed to be one. We expect the President of the United States to take a tough stand on issues of grave foreign policy interest, be it a nuclear Iran, genocide, or chemical weapon use on civilian populations. He gives one, which was what we expected, and the coalition around him evaporated. This simply makes sense.
    Are you kidding me? He is attempting to lie and get away with it. The "red line" idea was totally his own creation regardless of who helped to write that catchy telepromted line or the latest telepromtped message to the contrary. He is trying to get congress critters to support a limitted "mini war" that "will last days and not weeks" whatever that means. The Obama stated objective is simply for the U.S., and the mighty French, to punish Assad, hoping to weaken his abililty to previal in the Syrian civil war while knowing that Muslim extremists (ala Al Qaeda and the Muslim Broitherhood) are the most likely to obtain power if Assad falls. How this can possibly be in the security interest of the U.S. has never been clearly stated.

    Even the Washington Post wonks can't take Obama seriously on this "plan":

    The arguments were lengthy and unclear. The White House expressly admitted that their strikes wouldn’t save Syrian lives or topple Assad or making anything better in any way, and they were instead asking Americans to bomb Syria in order to enforce abstract international norms of warfare. It would be the first military action in American history that wasn’t meant to save lives or win a war but to slightly change the mix of arms a dictator was using to slaughter his population.
    Wonkbook: The Obama administration’s brilliant strategy to keep us out of Syria
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #49
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:46 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,307

    re: Obama: I didn't draw the red line on Syria, world did [W:162]

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Talk about slithering snakes...

    Unbelievable.
    All he has to do is acknowledge the truth that it was the rebels that used the gas and he is off the hook. What a maroon!

  10. #50
    Be different, be honest
    EdwinWillers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Divided States of Kardashia
    Last Seen
    12-25-15 @ 04:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,361

    re: Obama: I didn't draw the red line on Syria, world did [W:162]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    All he has to do is acknowledge the truth that it was the rebels that used the gas and he is off the hook. What a maroon!
    Here's the truth:
    We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation. - Barack Obama. Source: White House.gov
    and...
    We go on to reaffirm that the President has set a clear red line as it relates to the United States that the use of chemical weapons or the transfer of chemical weapons to terrorist groups is a red line that is not acceptable to us, nor should it be to the international community. It's precisely because we take this red line so seriously that we believe there is an obligation to fully investigate any and all evidence of chemical weapons use within Syria. White House Official. Source: White House.gov
    and...
    The President’s use of the term red line was deliberate and was based on U.S. policy. The world knew that the Syrian government possessed chemical weapons, and we had a concern that as the regime was increasingly beleaguered, it might use chemical weapons against the Syrian people in desperation. Jay Carney. Source: White House.gov
    Who denies or seeks to spin the president's statements about the red line are either lying or patently ignorant of the facts.
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

Page 5 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •