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Thread: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

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    Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/bu...ermany.html?hp

    FRANKFURT — Whenever Germany thrived, so did the rest of Europe. But that long-held belief is being questioned by its neighbors, which see evidence that the country is taking off without them.

    Despite Berlin’s hefty financial support of the euro zone’s more beleaguered members in the last few years, the economic crisis has corroded commercial ties between Germany and the rest of Europe. Countries like Italy and Spain no longer have the purchasing power they once did, and they trade less with Germany because of it.

    Greece, the most distressed country in Europe, is now little more than a German rounding error. German exports to Greece plunged 40 percent from 2008, while Germany imported 9 percent less from Greece. Last year, Greece ranked 44th among German trading partners, just behind Vietnam.



    Germany's reunification in the early 90's was watched suspiciously by some who still remembered WWI and WWII, but it's been assumed that with the economic ties of the European Union that the fortunes of Europe will rise and fall with Germany's.

    However, the Euro crisis has tested that assumption. Now that Germany is recovering leagues and bounds ahead of its neighbors, is there a chance that the days of European harmony are numbered? I'm of German descent, and I love Germany. They seem to abhor war nowadays. But the rise of extremists and nationalists in countries like Greece suggest its less prosperous neighbors will start to despise it, and eventually maybe German sentiments will turn towards contempt for them. Above all else, Germans seem to fear economic instability. Their memory of hyperinflation after WWI still drives their monetary policy today.

    An aggressive Germany in the 21st Century seems unthinkable, but William Shirer in the 30th anniversary edition of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich didn't think so. What's the likelihood that tensions in Europe will one day in the near future gravitate back towards the continent's economic center of gravity, Germany?

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/bu...ermany.html?hp

    FRANKFURT — Whenever Germany thrived, so did the rest of Europe. But that long-held belief is being questioned by its neighbors, which see evidence that the country is taking off without them.

    Despite Berlin’s hefty financial support of the euro zone’s more beleaguered members in the last few years, the economic crisis has corroded commercial ties between Germany and the rest of Europe. Countries like Italy and Spain no longer have the purchasing power they once did, and they trade less with Germany because of it.

    Greece, the most distressed country in Europe, is now little more than a German rounding error. German exports to Greece plunged 40 percent from 2008, while Germany imported 9 percent less from Greece. Last year, Greece ranked 44th among German trading partners, just behind Vietnam.



    Germany's reunification in the early 90's was watched suspiciously by some who still remembered WWI and WWII, but it's been assumed that with the economic ties of the European Union that the fortunes of Europe will rise and fall with Germany's.

    However, the Euro crisis has tested that assumption. Now that Germany is recovering leagues and bounds ahead of its neighbors, is there a chance that the days of European harmony are numbered? I'm of German descent, and I love Germany. They seem to abhor war nowadays. But the rise of extremists and nationalists in countries like Greece suggest its less prosperous neighbors will start to despise it, and eventually maybe German sentiments will turn towards contempt for them. Above all else, Germans seem to fear economic instability. Their memory of hyperinflation after WWI still drives their monetary policy today.

    An aggressive Germany in the 21st Century seems unthinkable, but William Shirer in the 30th anniversary edition of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich didn't think so. What's the likelihood that tensions in Europe will one day in the near future gravitate back towards the continent's economic center of gravity, Germany?
    Perhaps instead of denegrating Germany's economic success by comparing it to the failed economies of fellow EU members, it would be better to point out what allowed this success and suggest that other EU members learn from and adopt German economic practices???

    Just a thought.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/bu...ermany.html?hp

    FRANKFURT — Whenever Germany thrived, so did the rest of Europe. But that long-held belief is being questioned by its neighbors, which see evidence that the country is taking off without them.

    Despite Berlin’s hefty financial support of the euro zone’s more beleaguered members in the last few years, the economic crisis has corroded commercial ties between Germany and the rest of Europe. Countries like Italy and Spain no longer have the purchasing power they once did, and they trade less with Germany because of it.

    Greece, the most distressed country in Europe, is now little more than a German rounding error. German exports to Greece plunged 40 percent from 2008, while Germany imported 9 percent less from Greece. Last year, Greece ranked 44th among German trading partners, just behind Vietnam.



    Germany's reunification in the early 90's was watched suspiciously by some who still remembered WWI and WWII, but it's been assumed that with the economic ties of the European Union that the fortunes of Europe will rise and fall with Germany's.

    However, the Euro crisis has tested that assumption. Now that Germany is recovering leagues and bounds ahead of its neighbors, is there a chance that the days of European harmony are numbered? I'm of German descent, and I love Germany. They seem to abhor war nowadays. But the rise of extremists and nationalists in countries like Greece suggest its less prosperous neighbors will start to despise it, and eventually maybe German sentiments will turn towards contempt for them. Above all else, Germans seem to fear economic instability. Their memory of hyperinflation after WWI still drives their monetary policy today.

    An aggressive Germany in the 21st Century seems unthinkable, but William Shirer in the 30th anniversary edition of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich didn't think so. What's the likelihood that tensions in Europe will one day in the near future gravitate back towards the continent's economic center of gravity, Germany?
    Unfortunately, because the Eurozone was badly set up and because the EU faled to develop an accompanying deeper social and economic integration, the intriduction of the Euro has - in hindsight, driven the economies of the member states further apart.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    The problem with the EU is that member nations are autonomous. There is no centralized government to speak of. If they didn't share currency, this wouldn't be a big deal.....but they do.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
    The problem with the EU is that member nations are autonomous. There is no centralized government to speak of. If they didn't share currency, this wouldn't be a big deal.....but they do.
    Not all EU member states share the same currency. And an full-fledged "central government" would be unworkable and undesirable.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
    The problem with the EU is that member nations are autonomous. There is no centralized government to speak of. If they didn't share currency, this wouldn't be a big deal.....but they do.
    A more powerful EU government would mean little to no sovereignty for the individual nations. You'd be trying to mash 30 cultures together under one set of rules.

    If you try to fit that many people under one set of laws, no one will be happy because nobody will get what they want. It will be nothing but compromises and tradeoffs. It's a disastrous proposal.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    A more powerful EU government would mean little to no sovereignty for the individual nations. You'd be trying to mash 30 cultures together under one set of rules.

    If you try to fit that many people under one set of laws, no one will be happy because nobody will get what they want. It will be nothing but compromises and tradeoffs. It's a disastrous proposal.
    I don't think that the cultures are that much different, just languages. Granted, I've never been to Spain or Italy...but have been to France, Belgium and Germany...the seem similar from an outsider's point of view.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    Not all EU member states share the same currency. And an full-fledged "central government" would be unworkable and undesirable.
    It's the ultimate objective. Should it be realised, all these teething problems will be resolved. It's an entity that's attempting to consolidate authority in it's own right, while members stagger along with eroded sovereignty. A transitional period, the friction of which has only been exacerbated by the economic downturn. As the inevitable corner is turned, we'll witness a united and federalised Europe once and for all.

    What the majority seem to misinterpret as incompatibility, are only birth pains.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    It's the ultimate objective. Should it be realised, all these teething problems will be resolved. It's an entity that's attempting to consolidate authority in it's own right, while members stagger along with eroded sovereignty. A transitional period, the friction of which has only been exacerbated by the economic downturn. As the inevitable corner is turned, we'll witness a united and federalised Europe once and for all.

    What the majority seem to misinterpret as incompatibility, are only birth pains.
    The EU is not a new Rome.

    Rome was, in essence, the creator of most European nations and Europe as we know it today. It's cultural influence has changed everyone it has touched and more. Gauls, Britons, Dacians, Iberians, etc all these nations adopted Roman principles and life, adopted Roman culture and superimposed Roman identity on their own and became a new people. A better people. Better nations. Civilizations whose contributions to the cultural and technological and humanitarian patrimony are second to none. But that was Rome. The EU has nothing to offer in that manner. The EU's existence and future are dependent on the dilution of each national identity to the common denominators and expanding those commonalities as being more important than the things that make each people unique and that has promoted the advancement I spoke of earlier.

    If the EU were a new Rome... things would be different and maybe yes, the reality would be that this process would be the pains of birth. But it's not.

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    Re: Europe doesn't share Germany's economic rebound

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    It's the ultimate objective. Should it be realised, all these teething problems will be resolved. It's an entity that's attempting to consolidate authority in it's own right, while members stagger along with eroded sovereignty. A transitional period, the friction of which has only been exacerbated by the economic downturn. As the inevitable corner is turned, we'll witness a united and federalised Europe once and for all.

    What the majority seem to misinterpret as incompatibility, are only birth pains.
    This is most definetely NOT the ultimate objective. If this was the ultimate objective, the vast majority of Europeans would quit the EU right away.

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