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Rebels are to blame for gas attacks? (Syria)

Although I continue to believe that the U.S. should not intervene in Syria's civil war given the lack of critical U.S. interests involved, I believe odds probably favor the Syrian Army's use of chemical weapons. There is a degree of uncertainty, so I could be wrong. My thinking is as follows:

President Assad's defense against the claims of his Army's using chemical weapons is that it had no need to use such weapons in a conflict that appeared to be slowly turning its way. With a UN team in place to investigate previous reports of small-scale use of chemical weapons, resorting to such weapons would have been particularly risky. Yet, scenarios for such use do exist. Under battlefield pressures, emotions can override reasoned judgment. One possibility might be that a Syrian army unit, with tactical authority to use such weapons, attempted to achieve a battlefield breakthrough. With the rebels having engaged in de facto “human shielding” by placing military objectives in close proximity to civilians in the past (http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/CoISyria/A.HRC.22.59_en.pdf), it is possible that the Syrian army unit targeted rebel forces rather than engaged in indiscriminate bombardment or deliberate targeting of civilians. All three possibilities--human shielding, indiscriminate bombardment, or deliberate targeting--would result in high civilian casualties.

An alternative scenario would involve the anti-Assad forces deploying such weapons. There have been past reports of their possible access to and use of sarin (BBC News - UN's Del Ponte says evidence Syria rebels 'used sarin'). The major argument against such a scenario is that they lack the sophistication and means to deliver the kind of fairly large-scale attack that took place. A counterargument would be that they have been receiving more sophisticated missiles and other weapons in recent months so they might well have gained a capacity to deliver a larger-scale attack

My best guess is that Syrian army forces very likely used such weapons in the attack in question, plausibly with an army unit responsible for the tactical decision rather than President Assad. With rebel units having a history of operating in close proximity to civilians (a war crime in itself), that situation is probably as plausible an explanation for the high toll suffered by civilians as indiscriminate fire or deliberate targeting.

Had the rebels resorted to the use of such weapons, they would have been fired at the Syrian forces. While some fire might have missed, it is inconceivable that every missile fired by the rebels would have missed its target and impacted the affected area. Right now, I've seen no reports that a wider area was impacted in the attack in question. Despite the anti-Assad forces’ lack of regard for civilian protections—something they share with the Assad regime—it is probably very unlikely that the rebels would have deliberately attacked residents who back them. Either of those scenarios would be necessary to give the strongest support to the notion that the rebels were responsible for the attack. Additional scenarios exist, but the cumulative probability of those scenarios is probably very low and probability of individual scenarios even lower.
 
It's the rebels, those Islamist extremists jihadists the US has been supporting. The guys that just stopped a civilian bus and chopped off every bodies heads, the ones that tie up civilians and shoot them execution style, the ones that park truck bombs near civilian targets, the ones that have sacked and burned Christian church's, the ones sniping UN personnel, that kidnap journalists. You know the real nasty ones that Russia has satellite imagery of gassing civilians.
 
We have no idea how many rockets were fired, or how much Sarin was deployed. Also there are environmental elements; wind distribution, concentration of the agent between buildings and disbursement patterns due to both.

My only reason to show the picture, was to prove that multiple and simplistic delivery systems exist, and to believe what the Administration is saying (that it does not) is just incorrect.

There are also higher capacity delivery systems available for use in the region by non-government elements.

Not arguing with you, just pointing out that the possibility exists, and it is not a far fetched possibility.

On another subject, I cannot believe that the US government is stating that they "so not want to go to War" in Syria, but are stating in the same breath that they do want to fire missiles at Syria. The last time I checked, firing upon another sovereign nation is an Act of War. They would have every right declaring war against the US, and having their allies do the same, if we do attack them.



The Syrian Rebels were just touting their new home grown ballistic missile system a few weeks ago with the announcement "Unleash Hell":

Screen-Shot-2013-08-16-at-15.32.04.jpg


This rocket delivers a 120kg warhead. Two of those would be more than sufficient to deliver the amount of Sarin gas used in the attack.

This announcement came about a week before the Sarin attack.
 
There are photos on this forum showing rebel artillery fitted with a blue gas canister. Just like they were launched in WWI, Links indicating Saudi Prince Bandar has provided the gas. The UNO report by Carla del Ponte indicting the rebels for the gas attack in December. Do you have to be whacked up side the noodle with a gas canister to get the picture?

Let's see'em
 
I'm not doing you job for you.

It wouldn't be doing my job, whatever that means. Several pictures are on several threads, if you cared to see them you'd go look, but you would prefer that Assad would be blamed so that US bombing can commence so that you can get your coke and popcorn and be entertained.
 
US bombing can commence so that you can get your coke and popcorn and be entertained
That's right I wanna see my tax dollars at work!

Strikes_on_Tora_Bora.png
 
It wouldn't be doing my job, whatever that means. Several pictures are on several threads, if you cared to see them you'd go look, but you would prefer that Assad would be blamed so that US bombing can commence so that you can get your coke and popcorn and be entertained.

Post one, then. I think you won't because you know it proves nothing.
 
Well, if WW3 is at stake, and leaders do see and have calculated the risks, and the risks outweigh the benefits, then what the heck, okay the Syrian rebels gassed their own!
 
That's right I wanna see my tax dollars at work!

Strikes_on_Tora_Bora.png

Pops, you are old. You have seen life. Wait until we get there too with our children, grand children, and grand-grand children, and... you get the point. And then when we are ALL old as you we can set the whole world on fire and watch taxed dollars at work.
 
Boneheaded is actually a generous term. It seems about as likely as the last WMD scare we had in Iraq.

So, you think Assad is THAT dumb? What a preposterous thing to do. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Why is this sounding familiar?

Dictators do do stupid things (it's in the nature of dictators surrounding themselves with yes men). Still I hear you. I simply find it hard to believe that Assad would be this stupid, especially since it appears the rebel offensive had stalled, and if anything Assad had stabilized his position. I wish we could stay out of this -- supporting religious extremists backed by Saudi Arabia (of 9-11 fame) is something I find totally unpalatable. Assad may be a sombitch madman, but at least he's a secular madman.
 
set the whole world on fire
hah I'm just kidding, just trying to appear angry ;)
I would love for the planet to live in continual whirrled peas but not being a ditzy beauty pageant contestant
I know better than to wish for things that can never be achieved.

When I was young we lived in a world under the supposed threat of nooclear annihilation, turns out the Cold War was a hoax and is now being replaced with another hoax that is even LESS believable, Islam is going to destroy the west? oh plueaze dude seriously? I'd much rather the west would just concentrate on doing what we do best, getting richer and elevating our citizens standards of living.

The probability that even if we tried our best that we could drag these people into the 21st century is 0.000000000000000000%

24pkuxl.jpg
 
Wow. I never expected both left and right to be as close on this as they are.
 
Post one, then. I think you won't because you know it proves nothing.


I'm not going to go back thru the threads for you. Whatever buddy, I've proved you wrong twice and you can't admit it so no more wasted time with you.
 
Wow. I never expected both left and right to be as close on this as they are.

Regrettably, I think a lot of conservatives oppose a strike against Syria merely because Obama appears to be for it. So it's not on principle. I'd wager that if it were Bush planning a strike, they'd be clamoring for military action and asserting that Democrats aren't patriotic if they opposed it. That's how they got the whole Iraqi fiasco off the ground.

Since WWII Democrats and progressives have traditionally tried to limit presidential war power and have traditionally tried to deliberate before taking military action. I don't think conservatives can say the same. The isolationist wing maybe, but isolationism is itself a poor ground for arguing against military action.
 
Regrettably, I think a lot of conservatives oppose a strike against Syria merely because Obama appears to be for it. So it's not on principle. I'd wager that if it were Bush planning a strike, they'd be clamoring for military action and asserting that Democrats aren't patriotic if they opposed it. That's how they got the whole Iraqi fiasco off the ground.

Since WWII Democrats and progressives have traditionally tried to limit presidential war power and have traditionally tried to deliberate before taking military action. I don't think conservatives can say the same. The isolationist wing maybe, but isolationism is itself a poor ground for arguing against military action.

LOL.

You must be banking on victims of government schools to bite on that second paragraph.
 
Boneheaded is actually a generous term. It seems about as likely as the last WMD scare we had in Iraq.

So, you think Assad is THAT dumb? What a preposterous thing to do. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Why is this sounding familiar?

What tacticle objective were the rebs trying to achieve by gassing civilians?
 
Start by looking at posts #49 and #53 on this thread.

A short range chemical weapon and no one is wearing a gas mask, or protective clothing. Im not convinced.
 
I'd really like for our government to release the "proof" that they have in blaming the government for the attack.
 
I'd really like for our government to release the "proof" that they have in blaming the government for the attack.

Yes, even Fox News (so infamous for being anti-Obama admin) is reporting the "Syrian government propaganda", and I'm not convinced that the Syrian government is behind it.
 
What tacticle objective were the rebs trying to achieve by gassing civilians?


The tactical objective was to give the appearance of crossing the red line so the Al Queda air force would bomb Assad. False flag operation. Prince Bandar, CIA, Turkey, France, Qatar, and who else is sponsoring Al Queda in Syria? The USA would be the instrument referred to as the Al Queda air force. Get a grip.
 
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