Page 3 of 24 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 240

Thread: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporval

  1. #21
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That does not really fit though. Obama made the threat. Syria apparently used chemical weapons. Investigations happened. We reached a point of confidence in the intelligence, we start to move to act. The timeline fits for this being a straightforward thing. Sure, it is possible all these other scenarios are true, but there is no real evidence to support them, and mostly they are just what people think could be true based on their own pre-concieved prejudices. In the long run we are just speculating on an absense of evidence, which is pretty worthless.
    We didn't need the investigations they were a pretext for building a coalition. Our intelligence report for the use of chemical weapons was completed well before UN investigators entered the country. The timeline was elongated because the President was not willing to engage in an immediate strike in the days following the attack, instead favoring a stronger pretext and coalition. That is something people can disagree on as far as the right course is concerned (I think it was a mistake) but the real issue is now that we've come to a head and so much expectation has been generated around a US attack to do anything but launch some sort of action risks seriously damaging our credibility. I'm convinced that whether or not we act is being closely watched in the Kremlin, in Beijing, and across the wider region. I think a Congressional defeat is eminently possible and so it was a mistake to purse it, especially since it was unnecessary.

  2. #22
    Sage
    Slyfox696's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:29 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    7,986

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm not really sure what to say I think I was pretty clear.
    You were clear what you believe, but not as to why or how.

    I believe it reduces his authority to act
    No, it doesn't. If I'm a boss of a company and I ask my employees their opinion on a certain decision, does it reduce my authority to act? Of course not. And that's when there is a clear power difference between me and my employees, which does not exist between President and Congree.

    I believe it will set a precedent for future President's whether it binds them or not
    And I believe you haven't thought through this well enough.

    and I think I was pretty clear in my explanation of how I believe it would embarrass the United States.
    But that wouldn't be an embarrassment on Obama, which is how I took your original statement to mean. Oh, and I don't think it would be an embarrassment to the USA either.

  3. #23
    Jedi Master
    Captain America's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,672

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm not really sure what to say I think I was pretty clear. I believe it reduces his authority to act, I believe it will set a precedent for future President's whether it binds them or not, and I think I was pretty clear in my explanation of how I believe it would embarrass the United States.
    So, in short, you are saying Obama should thumb his nose to congress, the majority will of Americans, several super powers across the globe and just go ahead and bomb the **** out of Syria for some kind of John Wayne type bravado, ego, thing?

    Do you oppose Obama going to congress? Do you support Obama's desire to get into it with Syria?

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  4. #24
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It really doens't though. There is still enough precedent that a president can if he chooses not seek congressional approval. This does not signify the president has to seek approval, only that in this case he chose to.
    I'm not claiming that this is an iron writ that will bind all future President's. It isn't. But it will be used as a precedent for those who seek to prevent such a military action and may be used as pressure to halt such activities before they start. Clinton did not seek authorization for Kosovo, but I wonder if a future President would be able to get away with doing the same. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. Either way the precedent is unnecessary. Moreover if he is defeated it will be almost unprecedented.

  5. #25
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:38 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Oba should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporval

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    I was in support of Afghanistan, but against Iraq. I am NOT supporting military strikes in Syria.
    I was right with you on the first two, but I disagree on Syria, assuming limited strikes. I think it is appropriate to ensure that the use of WMD type weapons, chemical, biological, nuclear, should provoke a response that makes their use more costly than any gain from using them. I think that is in our best interest. I would actually think the case for military strikes is more of a slam dunk than pretty much any other case in the last 20 years or so(assuming the intelligence is correct of course).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #26
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,772

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    My fear is that his uncertainty is getting the better of him. I think people in his administration (Kerry, Rice, etc) are far more enthusiastic about military involvement than he is and I wouldn't be surprised of the bellicose rhetoric we've seen the past week or so has mostly been independently leaked as opposed to White House policy in an effort to shape the narrative over Syria and back him into a corner. The plodding nature of our shift towards Syria has been odd and I worry that he is using Congressional authorization as a procedural crutch to either delay a decision, provide political shielding, or take his administration off the hook for US action. I just can't imagine there is a strong majority in the House for these and I fear embarrassment as Congressional Republicans reflexively vote no and choice liberal contingents rebel to combine for a humiliating Cameron-esque defeat. What that would do to our position in the wider region and in the face of a challenge from Russia I can't begin to imagine.

    Doing nothing was something I'd disagreed with for a long time but to come to the brink of intervention and to arouse all manner of opposition and to prove incapable of action is a terribly dangerous precedent to set.
    Again, I disagree. I firmly believe there are wider implications here - more for America to lose had the President taken a unilateral approach - implications that go much farther than a President's face-saving efforts or maintaining popularity at home or abroad.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  7. #27
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:38 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm not claiming that this is an iron writ that will bind all future President's. It isn't. But it will be used as a precedent for those who seek to prevent such a military action and may be used as pressure to halt such activities before they start. Clinton did not seek authorization for Kosovo, but I wonder if a future President would be able to get away with doing the same. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. Either way the precedent is unnecessary. Moreover if he is defeated it will be almost unprecedented.
    Those who oppose an action don't need this to do so. They will still claim just as they have this time.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #28
    
    TheGirlNextDoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    09-24-14 @ 02:31 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,033
    Blog Entries
    21

    Re: Obatake military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporval

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That does not really fit though. Obama made the threat. Syria apparently used chemical weapons. Investigations happened. We reached a point of confidence in the intelligence, we start to move to act. The timeline fits for this being a straightforward thing. Sure, it is possible all these other scenarios are true, but there is no real evidence to support them, and mostly they are just what people think could be true based on their own pre-concieved prejudices. In the long run we are just speculating on an absense of evidence, which is pretty worthless.
    The UN inspectors had just finished their investigation.

    I still do not see how this poses a threat to U.S. national security?
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

  9. #29
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:38 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    We didn't need the investigations they were a pretext for building a coalition. Our intelligence report for the use of chemical weapons was completed well before UN investigators entered the country. The timeline was elongated because the President was not willing to engage in an immediate strike in the days following the attack, instead favoring a stronger pretext and coalition. That is something people can disagree on as far as the right course is concerned (I think it was a mistake) but the real issue is now that we've come to a head and so much expectation has been generated around a US attack to do anything but launch some sort of action risks seriously damaging our credibility. I'm convinced that whether or not we act is being closely watched in the Kremlin, in Beijing, and across the wider region. I think a Congressional defeat is eminently possible and so it was a mistake to purse it, especially since it was unnecessary.
    We absolutely needed the investigations, and in fact need the UN investigation to be complete. The need may be mostly political, but it does not make the need less real.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #30
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Obama: "US should take military action against Syria", seeks Congressional Apporv

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    So, in short, you are saying Obama should thumb his nose to congress, the majority will of Americans, seceral super powers across the globe and go ahead and just go ahead and bomb the **** out of Syria for some kind of John Wayne type bravado, ego, thing?

    Do you oppose Obama going to congress? Do you support Obama's desire to get into it with Syria?
    Yes. I do oppose Obama going to Congress. Sometimes the President has to act in the manner he thinks is best regardless of popular opinion. But no I do not think he is going to bomb Syria because of a 'John Wayne type bravado' thing. He has precedent on his side, he should act decisively if he is going to act at all.

Page 3 of 24 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •