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Thread: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

  1. #241
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    Re: "No boots on the ground in Syria," Says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Yeah because we should be in a hurry to attack another country and throw the region into chaos, like Bush did..

    Bottomline: Obama smart/Bush dumb.
    You mean the region wasnt in chaos before that? Smart

    If he was smart he wouldnt be in the position he is in today having to renege on his so called Red line at least a couple times now. He also shouldnt have announced his plans openly

    I also have to question your ability to make a fair comparison here as Obama got involved in both Libya & Egypt and I wouldnt exactly call those places non-chaotic.

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok I understand and it may not be. If so we won't learn about it for sometime. But chemical weaponry was used in some fashion and there is absolutely no logic to it having been the syrian government. But given the long term US foreign policy goal regarding Syria, there's clear motive and the Islamic extremists we are working with there, well of course they have motive to stage an attack and hope it could be pinned on the Syrian government. And look, you know China and Russia have repeatedly stressed to their Syrian ally that under NO circumstances can they target civilians or ever pull out chemical weapons because it would undermine their support. So, there just is no place for logic in an Assad chemical attack on anyone.
    I certainly agree with you in that it could be a false flag attack, but it seems even less likely the U.S. would use WMDs as a means of orchestrating a false flag. Certainly there's a motive for a false flag, but given how things are handled in the intelligence community, using a WMD in any case would be foolish. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no logic for Assad using a chemical weapon. In my experience, the things "allies" stress to one another aren't followed often at all.
    Be skeptical of anyone who wears a political label - party or ideology - with pride. Most of our problems are because people love to "debate" (it isn't debate, but they pretend it is), but are not interested in developing solutions. Solutions require empathy, thought, and compromise, and most folks aren't interested.

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    Re: "No boots on the ground in Syria," Says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by VanishingPoint View Post
    Americans certainly didn't need any help from Obama for being a laughing stock around the world...

    Americans are doing ok. The rest of the world certainly isn't in such great shape.

  4. #244
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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Can anybody even agree upon what "limited strike" means. General Eisenhower said that when hostilities begin, all plans go out the window.
    To me a 'limited strike' means "damaging the Syrian governments military and weapons enough to make it difficult to conduct more chemical weapons attacks."

    What does it mean to you?


    Yes of course. Can you imagine mushroom clouds over US cities, too? The attacks you reference are in retaliation of the US CIA training and arming Islamist extremist and sending them into Syria with hopes of toppling a government that the US hasn't liked for a long while now. Why is it so difficult for people to make the obvious conclusion that US foreign policy in the ME is provocative at best.
    Do you have a link to your CIA claim?


    The Syrian Electronic Army made another strike on US interests today.....

    'Syrian Electronic Army' hacks Marines website - NYPOST.com

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    By lack of conviction, I mean that it highlights our lack of resolve to accomplish an objective. Obama has said "no boots on the ground" no "no fly zone" etc. He has basically said we are not willing to get serious. Now you may agree or disagree, but the result is unchanged...enemies will sense weakness.

    Your suggestions about target are almost certainly among the top. However, how does that resolve the reasons for getting involved in the first place? More importantly, what is the next step IF escalation occurs?

    I think getting both sides to agree to a "two-state solution" is unrealistic. Please google a map of rebel held syrian areas on a map, then respond to how likely a two state solution is.

    Lastly, despite our passionate disagreement, thank you.
    If the objective is not to determine an outcome for Syria but merely to prevent Assad's military from using chemical weapons on civilians again, then isn't that enough? Why does it have to be all or nothing?

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If the objective is not to determine an outcome for Syria but merely to prevent Assad's military from using chemical weapons on civilians again, then isn't that enough? Why does it have to be all or nothing?
    Because it's highly unlikely that a limited attack would actually accomplish that.

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Because it's highly unlikely that a limited attack would actually accomplish that.
    What do you think might happen if the US does make a limited strike?

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    What do you think might happen if the US does make a limited strike?
    No one can say for sure. But I think it's likely we would see retaliation in some shape or fashion. Increased cyber events, hezbollah rocket attacks against Israel, perhaps violent protests orchestrated by Iran which could be violent...these are almost certain. Depending on how ballsy Iran and Syria feel, it could be much worse i.e. bombings in Israel, unleashing more and larger chem attacks, etc. I don't think we would see outright military confrontation against us or Israel...that would be too exposing.

    So all of these possibilities...for what? ...and why? That's why I'm saying if you are going to risk these outcomes then you have to accomplish some real, meaningful objective. If you are not willing to accept these risks, then stay out.

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    No one can say for sure. But I think it's likely we would see retaliation in some shape or fashion. Increased cyber events, hezbollah rocket attacks against Israel, perhaps violent protests orchestrated by Iran which could be violent...these are almost certain. Depending on how ballsy Iran and Syria feel, it could be much worse i.e. bombings in Israel, unleashing more and larger chem attacks, etc. I don't think we would see outright military confrontation against us or Israel...that would be too exposing.

    So all of these possibilities...for what? ...and why? That's why I'm saying if you are going to risk these outcomes then you have to accomplish some real, meaningful objective. If you are not willing to accept these risks, then stay out.
    I don't know that I am willing to accept such risks. But after reading this article, it appears we already are involved......

    The Syrian opposition: who's doing the talking? | Charlie Skelton | Comment is free | theguardian.com

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    Re: 'War-weary' Obama says Syria chemical attack requires response

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I don't know that I am willing to accept such risks. But after reading this article, it appears we already are involved......

    The Syrian opposition: who's doing the talking? | Charlie Skelton | Comment is free | theguardian.com
    Of course we are...but it's subtle and largely covert. What we're talking about doing now is overt and kinetic. It does change things.

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