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Thread: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov claim

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    True enough! Saddam had them thats for sure and they had to end up somewhere.
    It's a pretty big leap to say that the weapons we alleged Saddam had and could not prove he had (though we did sell him some) have now appeared in Syria. Man, how many countries are these "WMDs" going to make us invade? And didn't they have these things or were building the capabilities back in the 90's?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Because Clinton was president in the 1990s and wasn't an idiotic boob like Bush.
    Clinton was busy bombing other folk.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    It's not our fight. We may as well be screwed for not dropping a few bombs and killing more people who did nothing to us than for doing it.

    Yes, I know. That's why my post that you quoted contained the phrase, "We should not do this."

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Clinton was busy bombing other folk.
    Maybe, but he didn't invade anybody and didn't spend $3T giving Iran hegemony over the region.

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Yes, I know. That's why my post that you quoted contained the phrase, "We should not do this."
    I wasn't disagreeing with you.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    True. They said do what you think is best.

    It's one of the many left wing legends about how they were for it until they were against it.
    Glad to hear you backtrack and admit conservatives were wrong.

    As to those against the Iraqi war, look at subsequent votes and see who supported it and who tried to get us out of that conservative mess.

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Glad to hear you backtrack and admit conservatives were wrong.
    No they aren't wrong. The authorization included military force. And he chose to use it. If Democrats in Congress didn't want him to use it then they should have excluded it.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, they do not. Although the President cited a "threat" to Jordan and Israel, I disagree. Syria knows that if it attacked Israel conventionally or otherwise, Israel could drive the Assad government from power on its own. It also knows that if it attacked Jordan, the U.S. would defend its strategic ally with exactly the same outcome. Assad is trying desperately to survive and has his hands full with an ongoing sectarian conflict. He is not going to launch what could only amount to suicidal endeavors. As a result, Syria poses no imminent threat to Jordan or Israel. Also considering a lack of critical U.S. interests in the outcome of the Syrian civil war, I don't support U.S. military action in Syria. That's my opinion.
    I think portraying Syria as a rational actor is a bit misguided if we accept the premise that he has used chemical weapons when he was told that would result in action that would mean the end of his regime. If he did this he was suicidal anyway, and so he does present a clear threat to his neighbours.

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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    I don't know if anyone posted this already....anyways.
    U.S. Assessment of Syrian Use of Chemical Weapons + map


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    Re: 1,429 people were killed by a chemical attack carried out by Syrian Gov- US gov c

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I think portraying Syria as a rational actor is a bit misguided if we accept the premise that he has used chemical weapons when he was told that would result in action that would mean the end of his regime. If he did this he was suicidal anyway, and so he does present a clear threat to his neighbours.
    My guess is that the disconnect occurred on account of the gap between the stated U.S. commitment and actual U.S. interests. That gap led to a conclusion that the U.S. was not likely to respond with a meaningful military operation. That earlier smaller-scale uses of chemical weapons triggered no U.S. response might also have added to the confidence in that calculation. Deterrence can only succeed if a nation is willing and able to act and if the country being deterred believes that it is willing and able to act. In this case, there likely were doubts about the willingness of the U.S. to act and deterrence failed.

    In reading the declassified intelligence summary, one of the arguments made is quite interesting. The relevant language is as follows:

    In the three days prior to the attack, we collected streams of human, signals and geospatial intelligence that reveal regime activities that we assess were associated with preparations for a chemical weapons attack.

    If, in fact, this was the case and if, in fact, the U.S. is striving for a doctrine of non-use of chemical weapons, it would be fair to ask why the U.S. government didn't privately convey to President Assad that the U.S. was aware of such preparations and then warn that such an attack would result in severe consequences? If this information is correct, it would seem that there was an opportunity to at least try to deter the attack. Deterrence entails far fewer risks and far fewer unintended consequences than military action. As the report makes no mention of warnings toward that end and no news reports to date document such warnings, it would seem that an opportunity to try to head off a chemical weapons attack was missed, assuming that the information related to these preparations is accurate. Without access to the classified data and full context of what is believed to be known, the conditional language "if" is necessary.

    Of course, it might be plausible that the U.S. didn't put the signals together to reach its conclusion until after the attack. That development would reflect a continuing challenge facing the U.S. intelligence community where "signals" are not noticed until after the fact.

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