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McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

Anthony60 said:
I think that throughout this thread, there is a fundamental misunderstanding by the left on how the economy works. So, you want the business owner to pay double the actual cost of labor.
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We are now accusing people of something they aren't? I think all you god-squad GOP lemmings must have reading comprehension issues because clearly you cannot tell the difference between a Libertarian and a Liberal EVEN WHEN IT SAY LIBERTARIAN NEXT TO THE POSTER'S NAME.
 
Snappo said:
You said, and I quote: "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.".

You said this pal, not me. So my example of the Fireman stands to your silly post that started it. You said minimum wage was based on what someone can produce. So what does a cop produce? What does a fireman produce? What does a teacher produce? What does a bus driver produce?
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An on demand lifesaving, property saving service. Just to mention some of what they do.
 
Snappo said:
You said, and I quote: "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.".

You said this pal, not me. So my example of the Fireman stands to your silly post that started it. You said minimum wage was based on what someone can produce. So what does a cop produce? What does a fireman produce? What does a teacher produce? What does a bus driver produce?
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Government isn't involved in production. In addition I don't think they employ many minimum wage workers. If you hadn't noticed we are talking about minimum wage in the private sector. Feel free to join the conversation.

Examples of government workers whose jobs are non productive are plentiful. We are speaking about the relationship between business and wages though. I stand by what I said earlier regardless of your inability to understand or accept it.
 
Snappo said:
Please do not twist my words or take my words out of context. That is insulting and infuriating. My example ......... that minimum wage had to be based on what a human being can produce. "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.". -- SAWDUST
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Snappo said:
We are now accusing people of something they aren't? I think all you god-squad GOP lemmings must have reading comprehension issues because clearly you cannot tell the difference between a Libertarian and a Liberal EVEN WHEN IT SAY LIBERTARIAN NEXT TO THE POSTER'S NAME.
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There are many people of all political persuasions who do not/cannot comprehend this economic. Witness our elected officials who have nary a clue of business economics/operations.

Thom Paine
 
sawdust said:
I stand by what I said earlier regardless of your inability to understand or accept it.
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I understand that you said "Wages are based on production". I further understand that you could not explain what to do about jobs that don't produce anything. I'd invite you to the conversation; but nothing you say seems to have one iota of intelligent thought given to it. When every job in America produces something, then perhaps your below statement will make sense:
"Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production." -- SAWDUST
 
ItAin'tFree said:
An on demand lifesaving, property saving service. Just to mention some of what they do.
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So a cop that is in charge of putting evidence in a back room or collecting coins from a parking meter should be paid less than minimum wage? That's what Sawdust thinks.
Do you agree with him and this quote of his? "Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.".--SAWDUST
 
stonewall50 said:
What is a "fair" wage? This baffles me. What does a McDonald's employee do that deserves $1900 a month (someone stated that amount)? Did they have to risk anything for the job? Or just apply? What kind of education? A poster here demonstrated that one certainly doesn't need to invest money in an education. So they deserve ~$1400-$1900 a month to put "burgers" in microwaves or whatever they cook in? Even in a crap economy where people stop going to the store? So what the hell should we pay a doctor who busted his ass, paid out the ass, went through 8 years of college, took test after test, 2 years residency and spent ungodly sums of money? What about the nurse who spent long hours getting the education, dealing with crazy patients, cleaning up human fecal matter, and worked their ass off and paid out the ass for education? The fireman who had to learn the trade, bust his ass to pass the tests, and risk his life? The electrician? The carpenter? The small business man? The big business man? At the end of the day you want to talk about "fair" wages? Talk about teachers. Or anyone else I listed who is paid poorly.

You know. I think I am coming up with a theory. We have lost industrial/manufacturing jobs here. We ship a lot of that stuff overseas. And now we wonder why we have a surplus of employees to ask, "Do you want to make that a super small for .25 less?" (Props if you get it). We need jobs here. End of story. If we want jobs, we gotta make em. And ditch digging is a job.

I'm hoping for law school. I'm not afraid. I'm hopeful. Maybe the real world will kick my teeth down my throat, but I'm not gonna quit until I scratch and claw my way into a job that pays for a family. Oh. And I will make sure my kid gets and engineering degree. Lol.
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There are people who are not smart enough to go to college. Some of them were not smart enough to make it out of high school. Congress felt they should not be executed like a sack puppy or forced to live in an old refrigerator box in an alley somewhere. So they came up with a minimum wage. Roosevelt said that was the most important thing ever done since the New Deal. The odds of a young man living in a ghetto finding his way to a college and a decent job is very slim. The odds of a young woman living in a ghetto that had 4 babies by the time she was 21 and has no man living with her is equally not very promising. If these very poor people cannot get a reasonable wage for non-skilled labor; then taxpayers like me are going to have to pay for their welfare, section-8 home, food stamps, medical care, and WIC cheese and milk. I would rather see them get a wage they can survive on.
 
Snappo said:
I understand that you said "Wages are based on production". I further understand that you could not explain what to do about jobs that don't produce anything. I'd invite you to the conversation; but nothing you say seems to have one iota of intelligent thought given to it. When every job in America produces something, then perhaps your below statement will make sense:
"Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production." -- SAWDUST
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I'm sorry but you don't understand the subject. Government isn't dependent on profit to stay afloat. All they require is tax revenue. They aren't constrained by budgets as we've seen lately. They print money.

Business however has to depend on productivity for profit. All I can suggest for you at this point is never start a company. It will make you sad.
 
sawdust said:
I'm sorry but you don't understand the subject. Government isn't dependent on profit to stay afloat. All they require is tax revenue. They aren't constrained by budgets as we've seen lately. They print money.

Business however has to depend on productivity for profit. All I can suggest for you at this point is never start a company. It will make you sad.
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Instead of coming up with your silly responses or personal attacks, why don't you explain why you think minimum wage should be based only on what a person produces and not based on services. You said "Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production." So what about people that don't produce anything? And don't tell me again about never starting a company. I own a company and I would bet I make more during a bad quarter than you have ever earned in a year.
 
The Man said:
I would rather see them not bring children into this world.
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You can make that happen, but premeditated murder is a felony punishable by either life in prison or by death depending what State you live in. The kids are in this world and the choice is to help these people stand on their own two feet or to carry them through life with entitlement programs. I prefer not to carry them through life with my taxes and to see a better solution than a third of a trillion dollars every year go to entitlements.
 
Snappo said:
You can make that happen, but premeditated murder is a felony punishable by either life in prison or by death depending what State you live in. The kids are in this world and the choice is to help these people stand on their own two feet or to carry them through life with entitlement programs. I prefer not to carry them through life with my taxes and to see a better solution than a third of a trillion dollars every year go to entitlements.
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How about they give them up for adoption if they can't afford them? Or abort them before they're born? Or don't have unprotected sex?

Who, besides you, said anything about murder?
 
The Man said:
Hell, most firefighters, outside of cities, are volunteers, and they provide a much more valuable service to society than any McDonald's employee. Maybe McDonald's workers should all be volunteers?
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Considering how bad McDonald's is for health, I wouldn't shed a tear if they went out of business. I am not sure what the burden is on taxpayers for morbid obesity; but I have to guess its in the tens of billions to hundreds of billions every year.
 
Snappo said:
Considering how bad McDonald's is for health, I wouldn't shed a tear if they went out of business. I am not sure what the burden is on taxpayers for morbid obesity; but I have to guess its in the tens of billions to hundreds of billions every year.
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There is no evidence linking McDonald's to obesity.:roll:
 
The Man said:
How about they give them up for adoption if they can't afford them? Or abort them? Or don't have unprotected sex?

Who, besides you, said anything about murder?
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I was making a joke. I am not suggesting you kill the babies of these welfare mothers. Abortion is illegal in almost every country on the planet and there are laws in USA pertaining to abortion as well. And without getting into a debate on abortion; the bottom line is that that there are a TON of welfare moms and moms without a husband in USA, especially among blacks. Either America comes up with an idea about how to get those people into the workplace, or we pay their way through life. Adoptions, abortions, and condoms are a future fantasy - the truth of the matter is that these people already exist here in America, already have these children, and are already on entitlement programs. This isn't a game of Risk; where we think something is going to happen in seven moves after we roll the dice seven times. These things are happening right now as we speak. $350+ billion in entitlement programs every year. Just today while you and I write these messages to each other, Uncle Sam will pay out right around $1 billion in entitlement checks.
 
Jack Hays said:
There is no evidence linking McDonald's to obesity.:roll:
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That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Diet is linked to obesity. McDonald's food is horrible and should not be consumed (other than the salads, without the unhealthy dressings). Just one Big Mac has 29 grams of fat, 10 grams of saturated fat, and 970 mg's of sodium. The double quarter pounder is even worse, with 43 grams of fat, 19 grams of saturated fat, and 1280 mg of sodium.
Medical fact: a diet high in fat, sugar, animal products and salt (sodium), and low in fibre, vitamins and minerals is linked with cancers of the breast and bowel, and heart disease. That describes an average McDonald's meal. Chewing is essential for good health, as it promotes the flow of digestive juices which break down the food and send nutrients into the blood. McDonald's food is so lacking in bulk it is hardly possible to chew it. Even their own figures show that a "quarter-pounder" is 48% water.
 
Snappo said:
Please do not twist my words or take my words out of context. That is insulting and infuriating. My example of a Fireman was based on Sawdust saying that minimum wage had to be based on what a human being can produce. "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.". -- SAWDUST
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I didn't twist a thing. You seem to think that a firefighter does not produce anything. They're product is firefighting, well worth more than $2p/hr.
 
Snappo said:
Instead of coming up with your silly responses or personal attacks, why don't you explain why you think minimum wage should be based only on what a person produces and not based on services. You said "Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production." So what about people that don't produce anything? And don't tell me again about never starting a company. I own a company and I would bet I make more during a bad quarter than you have ever earned in a year.
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Doubt it. How many non productive workers so you carry in this company that you own? How do you determine wages for your employees? Is there a generally expected wage or do you just open your checkbook and let your employees take as much as they need? If you are really in business I know the answers.
 
Snappo said:
That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Diet is linked to obesity. McDonald's food is horrible and should not be consumed (other than the salads, without the unhealthy dressings). Just one Big Mac has 29 grams of fat, 10 grams of saturated fat, and 970 mg's of sodium. The double quarter pounder is even worse, with 43 grams of fat, 19 grams of saturated fat, and 1280 mg of sodium.
Medical fact: a diet high in fat, sugar, animal products and salt (sodium), and low in fibre, vitamins and minerals is linked with cancers of the breast and bowel, and heart disease. That describes an average McDonald's meal. Chewing is essential for good health, as it promotes the flow of digestive juices which break down the food and send nutrients into the blood. McDonald's food is so lacking in bulk it is hardly possible to chew it. Even their own figures show that a "quarter-pounder" is 48% water.
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You can rant all you want. Fact is there is no evidence linking McDonald's to obesity. There is propaganda, of which you have provided a fine example, but there is no evidence.:soap
 
If they need to pay workers 7$/hour to make a profit there would be no McDonald's in developed countries besides the U.S.. That or Americans can't take a price increase, if you want to increase the profits form it just raise the price. There is also the fact that for some reason the burgers, drinks, and fries, etc. have much larger portions in the U.S. if you don't want to raise prices just serve less like the human sized portions every other country gets.
 
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Carjosse said:
If they need to pay workers 7$/hour to make a profit there would be no McDonald's outside the U.S.. That or Americans can't take a price increase.
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What makes you think there's nowhere where McDonald's workers make less?
 
Jack Hays said:
What makes you think there's nowhere where McDonald's workers make less?
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In the developed world the U.S. has a verys mall minimum wage the only way you can go lower is to go to developing countries.
 
Snappo said:
We are now accusing people of something they aren't?
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I don't believe I made any unjust accusations. I am just responding to your post, I couldn't care less what you stick next to your name.

I think all you god-squad GOP lemmings...
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I'm glad you are so against accusing people of things.

BTW, don't think I haven't noticed that you used this as a diversion rather than reply to the rock-solid facts in my post.;)
So far, you've refuted nothing.
 
Carjosse said:
In the developed world the U.S. has a verys mall minimum wage the only way you can go lower is to go to developing countries.
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"If they need to pay workers 7$/hour to make a profit there would be no McDonald's outside the U.S." Your words, not mine. I see no distinction in your claim between the developed world and developing countries. Would you like to change your claim?
 
sawdust said:
Doubt it. How many non productive workers so you carry in this company that you own? How do you determine wages for your employees? Is there a generally expected wage or do you just open your checkbook and let your employees take as much as they need? If you are really in business I know the answers.
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I doubt you know much. My company was 100 employees, and we were recently purchased by a Fortune 500 and I am now an officer in that firm with voting stock. So now we have right around 165,000 employees. A small portion of my company produces software - the rest supply consulting services or are internal support staff for the organization. Our wages for the consultants are determined by the market. When my partners and I owned the smaller company it was the same way - software and services with a small support staff. And if you had any kind of balls you would stand to what you said and justify it. Be a man. "Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.". -- SAWDUST
 
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