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McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

This thread highlights the liberal doctrine of economics.

If you don't have enough money, then just print some more money so you have more money.

Hey, let's print a whole bunch of money, then we can all drive brand new Cadillacs!

I do believe the hot new car is Mercedes not Cadillac.
 
Yeah.....no. There aren't "plenty of ways" to get out of these jobs. Upward mobility is essentially zero now; you can have a college degree, work training, the best work ethic around, and super-ability to do your job, and you'll still be lucky to just keep your minimum wage job. When nobody's hiring, there is always a downwards push to inflation adjusted wages, because employers can afford to take advantage of you; you're replaceable. As long as a good employee is replaceable, there will never be a true opportunity for upward mobility.

So who says you have to stay in that industry? Or that job in particular? Let's take the example of the 23 year old that comes out of college with a degree, and can't find a job in his field...So, he moves in with mom and dad, gets the job at McD's and ponders how life sucks. OR, he moves to where he can get a job he needs, or he can go into a different direction. But, your attitude here sounds more defeatist than can do....

"then they have to get a different job"? What jobs? There are no jobs. I walked down my street the other night and saw about a dozen shops going out of business or already boarded up. McJobs are what's left, and we're fighting to make them better. Oh, I can't say for greengirl, but I voted Romney; I'm stuck with Obama either way, and I'm trying to make the best of it.

I spent 4 years of my life trying to better myself, I got the degree and the certificates and the internships and the work experience , etc. And...McJobs as far as the eye can see. My last minimum wage job took 2 months of communication, 3 interviews, and I still had to wait to be their second pick. It's ridiculous out there.

Well, I don't know what your particular degree is in, but maybe it is the area you live, or the degree you have is not in demand there....Would you move?
 
I admire people who work with their hands and particularly feel for people stuck on assembly lines and hot, sweaty jobs. Without those "people at the bottom" as many like to call them there would be no one in the middle or at the top. Society would collapse without the "salt of the earth" workers. And I can understand their wanting more. Most are probably worth it. Mandating it is another thing.

Do you admire them from a distance or are you there working with them?
 
Look into a company called American Apparel and it's owner, Dov Charney.
American Apparel | Fashionable Basics. Sweatshop Free. Made in USA.
American Apparel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They make clothing in LA and pay over $30,000/year, compared to about $600 their competitors pay workers in Bangladesh. Management greed and incompetence is easily justified sometimes.


I gave this post a "like" simply becuse you tried to show that "overpaying" workers can be done if you run a very efficient opperation, as you are still able to be competitive.

Saying that the "average" pay of American Apparel is 12$/hour is not saying that they pay their unskilled workers that as a starting rate, or that $12/hour is their minimum pay rate. That sounds like a lot when compared to $8.00/hr (CA minimum wage) but that is only $0.25/hour more than what Walmart, the favorite whipping boy of the retail industry, pays on average.

The average Walmart "associate," Wake Up Walmart reports, makes $11.75 an hour. That's $20,744 per year. Those wages are slightly below the national average for retail employees, which is $12.04 an hour.

Read more: Walmart Employs 1% Of America. Should It Be Forced To Pay Its Employees More? - Business Insider

EDIT: The bolded above is based on what? I found this in your 2nd link:

American Apparel has decided not to outsource its labor, paying factory workers an average of over twelve dollars an hour and often more than $100 a day.

Over $30K/year is over $14.40/hour and I didn't see evidence of that in your links.
 
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And then they will demand more money, because 15 dollars an hour is no longer a " livable wage".

Ant the thugs running the labor union are smiling since their percentage is getting higher and higher.....
 
I gave this post a "like" simply becuse you tried to show that "overpaying" workers can be done if you run a very efficient opperation, as you are still able to be competitive.

Saying that the "average" pay of American Apparel is 12$/hour is not saying that they pay their unskilled workers that as a starting rate, or that $12/hour is their minimum pay rate. That sounds like a lot when compared to $8.00/hr (CA minimum wage) but that is only $0.25/hour more than what Walmart, the favorite whipping boy of the retail industry, pays on average.



Read more: Walmart Employs 1% Of America. Should It Be Forced To Pay Its Employees More? - Business Insider

Yeah, but this guy (Dov Charney) isn't competing with people paying a quarter an hour less, he's competing with people who pay a quarter an hour. He's operating in LA, paying American wages, rent, taxes, etc. and competing against companies operating in Bangladesh. And making money doing it. How is that possible when an increase in the minimum wage in the US would bring down a whole industry?
He beats a drum about world-wide employment ethics- his point is, if you're not paying people in third-world countries a buck an hour, you're stealing from the world's poorest people. Hard to disagree with that one.
 
Yeah, but this guy (Dov Charney) isn't competing with people paying a quarter an hour less, he's competing with people who pay a quarter an hour. He's operating in LA, paying American wages, rent, taxes, etc. and competing against companies operating in Bangladesh. And making money doing it. How is that possible when an increase in the minimum wage in the US would bring down a whole industry?
He beats a drum about world-wide employment ethics- his point is, if you're not paying people in third-world countries a buck an hour, you're stealing from the world's poorest people. Hard to disagree with that one.

Because, unlike the garment industry, the fast food industry, like many others, is competing only inside the U.S. so unless they reduce costs in other areas, as American Apparel did, then they must raise prices to raise wages, which will negatively affect their market share. You look at McDonalds as a huge corporation yet he vast number of it's employees work for local franchises, so unlike Walmart (or American Apparel) they have little control over how their stores are operated - they do not make the food they only prepare and sell it.

American Apparel is not competing with Bangladesh except in initial garment production they are competing with other clothing retailers that do not all have wholey owned dedicated producers and designers and must give their producers, desgners, shippers, wholesalers and distributors their cuts of the action. Did you even read your own link to see where American Apparel "system" gets the savings to allow these "high" production wages to be paid?
 
Outstanding Luther....I was just about to type something similar....:lol:

Yep, just short sightedness from the left. When it becomes cheaper to automate than to hire a person, hello automation.
 
This thread highlights the liberal doctrine of economics.

If you don't have enough money, then just print some more money so you have more money.

Hey, let's print a whole bunch of money, then we can all drive brand new Cadillacs!

Lol considering Republicans are responcible for 70% of the national debt yeah it was Dems spending all the money under Regan, Bush1 and Bush2. Please stop with the conservative anti everything talking points. Americans have caught on to the whole lets drape oursleves in the flag and call ourselves patriots and do the direct opposite! That is why you guys cant find anyone decent enough to run. They get laughed at.
 
I haven't read the entire thread, so pardon me if this has been brought up, but all this looks like to me is a bunch of fast food workers who are butthurt because they are not making the same wages that college graduates are. Maybe if they wanted a $15 an hour paycheck, they should have stayed in school, and even went on to college. A college degree, of course, does not guarantee a good paycheck, and in this economy it doesn't even guarantee a paycheck but it's a heck of a lot better than dropping out of high school and flipping burgers for a living.
 
Lol considering Republicans are responcible for 70% of the national debt yeah it was Dems spending all the money under Regan, Bush1 and Bush2. Please stop with the conservative anti everything talking points. Americans have caught on to the whole lets drape oursleves in the flag and call ourselves patriots and do the direct opposite! That is why you guys cant find anyone decent enough to run. They get laughed at.

What planet are you from? Oh, nevermind....Just a product of public education....Understandable....;)
 
This thread highlights the liberal doctrine of economics.

If you don't have enough money, then just print some more money so you have more money.

Hey, let's print a whole bunch of money, then we can all drive brand new Cadillacs!

Hell, as long as we can just print money, why do we even need to pay taxes?
National debt 17 trillion?
No problem just have the fed crank out 17 trill..problem solved. :roll:
 
Because, unlike the garment industry, the fast food industry, like many others, is competing only inside the U.S. so unless they reduce costs in other areas, as American Apparel did, then they must raise prices to raise wages, which will negatively affect their market share. You look at McDonalds as a huge corporation yet he vast number of it's employees work for local franchises, so unlike Walmart (or American Apparel) they have little control over how their stores are operated - they do not make the food they only prepare and sell it.

It's certainly true that American Apparel competes world-wide. Imagine them selling Made in the USA clothing in Mexico, Brasil and Korea?
There's not much difference in the steps necessary to push a burger over the counter at a MickeyD's and the steps leading to a tee-shirt put into a shopping bag in an American Apparel store. The examples aren't apples and oranges.

American Apparel is not competing with Bangladesh except in initial garment production they are competing with other clothing retailers that do not all have wholey owned dedicated producers and designers and must give their producers, desgners, shippers, wholesalers and distributors their cuts of the action. Did you even read your own link to see where American Apparel "system" gets the savings to allow these "high" production wages to be paid?

I guess, bottom line, it's the workers at American Apparel who're competing with Bangladesh, not the company per se. And it's a mistake to say that the fact of overseas production is a liability for companies like Nike, Joe Fresh, Benetton, etc. They're not operating in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh for humanitarian reasons.
We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this.
 
I dunno, $15 to flip burgers and wear a headset seems pretty sweet, but let's not forget that if they get that, then people who actually do hard labor like masonry work, or anything of that nature surely would deserve much more than that, right? I worked as a bricklayers helper in the 80's got paid $6 an hour. Hardest job I've ever done. The going rate for an entry level laborer is about $12 to $15 as we speak. Think if McDonalds was suddenly paying the same, I suspect not many building would get built, or bridges spanned. :)

Think people, THINK, for the love of God, THINK!


Tim-
 
Lol considering Republicans are responcible for 70% of the national debt yeah it was Dems spending all the money under Regan, Bush1 and Bush2. Please stop with the conservative anti everything talking points. Americans have caught on to the whole lets drape oursleves in the flag and call ourselves patriots and do the direct opposite! That is why you guys cant find anyone decent enough to run. They get laughed at.

BHO is already responsible for more national debt than any other POTUS, and on the day he leaves office on 20 January 2017 he will be responsible for more national debt than all other Presidents combined.:mrgreen:
 
It's certainly true that American Apparel competes world-wide. Imagine them selling Made in the USA clothing in Mexico, Brasil and Korea?
There's not much difference in the steps necessary to push a burger over the counter at a MickeyD's and the steps leading to a tee-shirt put into a shopping bag in an American Apparel store. The examples aren't apples and oranges.



I guess, bottom line, it's the workers at American Apparel who're competing with Bangladesh, not the company per se. And it's a mistake to say that the fact of overseas production is a liability for companies like Nike, Joe Fresh, Benetton, etc. They're not operating in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh for humanitarian reasons.
We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this.

Yes they are. What does an American Apparel (AA) clerk sell? Yep - only AA made products, so you should compare them to Apple store clerks, not Walmart, McDonald's or grocery store clerks. The ability to make less profit at the factory is offset by making more profit at the retail store - did you not catch that "detail" in the link that you provided? The profit margin on an AA shirt is WAY above that of a McBurger or a can of baked beans at the grocery store.
 
BHO is already responsible for more national debt than any other POTUS, and on the day he leaves office on 20 January 2017 he will be responsible for more national debt than all other Presidents combined.:mrgreen:

This is true.


Naive children don't understand and experienced shills pretend not to understand.
 
I dunno, $15 to flip burgers and wear a headset seems pretty sweet, but let's not forget that if they get that, then people who actually do hard labor like masonry work, or anything of that nature surely would deserve much more than that, right? I worked as a bricklayers helper in the 80's got paid $6 an hour. Hardest job I've ever done. The going rate for an entry level laborer is about $12 to $15 as we speak. Think if McDonalds was suddenly paying the same, I suspect not many building would get built, or bridges spanned. :)

Think people, THINK, for the love of God, THINK!


Tim-

damn, heed your own mantra

think those construction companies are going to go out of business because their employees would rather serve fries that haul bricks? you must to come up with that foolish conclusion
think about it
 
damn, heed your own mantra

think those construction companies are going to go out of business because their employees would rather serve fries that haul bricks? you must to come up with that foolish conclusion
think about it

Well, if the burger flipper makes more than the brick layers helper, then hell yeah...Higher pay, less physical labor.
 
damn, heed your own mantra

think those construction companies are going to go out of business because their employees would rather serve fries that haul bricks? you must to come up with that foolish conclusion
think about it

Is that sarcasm?

Tim-
 
damn, heed your own mantra

think those construction companies are going to go out of business because their employees would rather serve fries that haul bricks? you must to come up with that foolish conclusion
think about it

What do you think the new pay scale will be for fast food workers who have put in the time, and have been rewarded with pay raises?

Think they should be paid more than the newbie who doesn't know how to sweep the floor yet?
 
Well, if the burger flipper makes more than the brick layers helper, then hell yeah...Higher pay, less physical labor.

and then share with us what the construction company does to retain its help
or like the other fellow who pleads with us to think, do you believe that company will simply close its doors
 
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