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Thread: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

  1. #411
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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    t is to regulate commerce AMONG the states...not inside them.
    Among is "within the midst". So a law saying you have to pay an employee $10 an hour in New York would be a law that affects the people and companies in the midst of NY. I believe it is legal to create minimum wages for Uncle Sam, and feel on a State Constitution by State Constitution level that it would probably be legal for individual States to make laws pertaining to minimum wage. BTW - either way is fine for me. If a person lives in NY and the State says he has to make $25K a year, that would still mean my taxes go down because $25K a year would mean that family was not entitled to Section-8, Welfare, Food Stamps, WIC, or free medical care. And when Federal entitlements go from $350 billion down to $100 billion; I have to assume my taxes will go down too. I am also for the Defense Spending to go from $800 billion down to $300 billion. Seems to me if Russia is at $70 billion and China is at $140 billion, that $300 billion is 30% more than the two of them combined and the safety of USA is preserved. So just cutting those two line items saves us about $750 billion and I have to assume that savings could be used to pay down some debt and make Social Security healthy again.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    If sub-minimal wages increased youth employment, it should work across racial lines, but since 1972 it has not decreased white youth unemployment.



    Notice that the increases in unemployment for black youths correlates with recessions. Also notice that Black youth unemployment is at the same level now as in 1972.
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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I'm sure that when you go back to the Euro origins of your family, actually visiting the cities of your ancestors, you cannot understand or see how your family got to the US.....without a genealogy chart and family history.

    Going back to original documents gives no understanding to where we are now. You are leaving out the middle, only you can answer why.

    the founders who wrote the constitution state government is limited. its duties are few and defined.

    .the 10th....."all powers not delegated to the federal government by the constitution shall remain the power of the states"

    the founders say the delegated powers of congress are 18 powers......i see nothing about wages in the constitution, and commerce is the buying and selling of goods and services,

    With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” – James Madison in letter to James Robertson

    “[Congressional jurisdiction of power] is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any.” – James Madison, Federalist 14

    “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined . . . to be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce.” – James Madison, Federalist 45

    “If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.” – James Madison, 1792

    “The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed” – Thomas Jefferson, 1791

    “Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

    There you have it. James Madison, the Constitution’s author and Thomas Jefferson the author of the Declaration of Independence, specifically say that Congressional powers are to be limited and defined – unlike most modern interpretations!

    Admittedly, Jefferson and Madison were not our only Founders. These two were strict constitutionalists who feared the potential strength of any government. So let’s look at another Founder’s opinion—Alexander Hamilton who historically saw it in a somewhat looser vain.

    “This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 83

    Hamilton uncategorically states that all congressional powers are enumerated and that the very existence of these enumerations alone makes any belief that Congress has full and general legislative power to act as it desires nonsensical. If such broad congressional power had been the original intent, the constitutionally specified powers would have been worthless. In other words, why even enumerate any powers at all if the General Welfare clause could trump them?

    “No legislative act … contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 78

    In short, Hamilton tells us that since the powers of Congress are enumerated and limit Congress to those powers, any assumed authority outside those specified that don’t have a direct relation to those explicit powers must be contrary to the Constitution and therefore — unconstitutional.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    So that you do not have to read the rest of THIS THREAD that you are posting in (which is where I posted my view of minimum wage), I will share it with you again.

    Overview of facts taken into account in defining my opinion:
    I gave an example of what I believed was a reasonable budget for a family of three. I came up with about $1,900 a month. I further searched through Federal websites and came up with Uncle Sam determining that the poverty threshold for a family of three in 2012 was $19,090. I divided the $19,090 by the standard hours in a work year (2080 minus holidays and sick days) and I came up with an hourly wage of roughly $10/hr. I took my estimate of a budget of $1,900 and divided by the work hours in a month and also came up with $10/hr.

    My position:
    Since Uncle Sam subsidizes Americans that make less than the poverty threshold of $19,090 with such things as section-8 housing, welfare, food stamps, and free medical care; I believe that increasing minimum wage such that all working Americans are above that poverty threshold will lower my tax obligation considerably. I believe that one of the major economic issues in America is the Federal Budget, and I further believe that the entitlements in the Federal Budget and defense spending in the federal budget should be reduced by 50% so that the budget works toward becoming balanced, lowers the debt, increases the health of Social Security, and potentially lowers my tax rate (I am in the highest tax rate in USA).
    Thank you, but I would have to disagree. The minimum wage was never intended to support a family of any size. It has only served to freeze out lesser skilled applicants during times of high unemployment and to further increase incentives for business to eliminate jobs at the lower end of the wage scale. If your desire is for individuals to become self-supporting, long-term support must be removed for those capable of doing so...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    Among is "within the midst". So a law saying you have to pay an employee $10 an hour in New York would be a law that affects the people and companies in the midst of NY. I believe it is legal to create minimum wages for Uncle Sam, and feel on a State Constitution by State Constitution level that it would probably be legal for individual States to make laws pertaining to minimum wage. BTW - either way is fine for me. If a person lives in NY and the State says he has to make $25K a year, that would still mean my taxes go down because $25K a year would mean that family was not entitled to Section-8, Welfare, Food Stamps, WIC, or free medical care. And when Federal entitlements go from $350 billion down to $100 billion; I have to assume my taxes will go down too. I am also for the Defense Spending to go from $800 billion down to $300 billion. Seems to me if Russia is at $70 billion and China is at $140 billion, that $300 billion is 30% more than the two of them combined and the safety of USA is preserved. So just cutting those two line items saves us about $750 billion and I have to assume that savings could be used to pay down some debt and make Social Security healthy again.
    wrong!


    among does not mean inside the states, it means between the members[ the states] as madison states in federalist 42.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I'm sure that when you go back to the Euro origins of your family, actually visiting the cities of your ancestors, you cannot understand or see how your family got to the US.....without a genealogy chart and family history.
    I personally cannot go back to my origins. Hitler killed every person on my father's side of the family except his mother (my grandmother). My grandmother's 13 siblings and two parents were murdered and every one of their possessions confiscated. She is the only one to escape Warsaw. On my mother's side, Russian Pogroms took the lives and possessions of everyone except my great grandfather; even going so far as to destroy proof of them ever having existed. So all I have to form my views is what I read and what I experience. All my ancestors are dead and none wrote about St. Petersburg or the Warsaw ghettos. My grandmother went to both locations to do research before she died and came up empty.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    among does not mean inside the states
    a·mong (-mng) also a·mongst (-mngst)
    prep.
    1. In the midst of; surrounded by: a pine tree among cedars.
    [Middle English, from Old English mang : , in; see a-2 + gemang, throng; see mag- in Indo-European roots.]

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    a·mong (-mng) also a·mongst (-mngst)
    prep.
    1. In the midst of; surrounded by: a pine tree among cedars.
    [Middle English, from Old English mang : , in; see a-2 + gemang, throng; see mag- in Indo-European roots.]

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
    you need to read. ..why was commerce turned over to the federal government?

    answer becuase under the articles of confederation, states were enacting trade barriers, and trade wars with other states, this was causing commerce to come to a stand still in america.

    so commerce was turned over to the federal government, to regulate commerce laws, which were enacted by the states, with the federal government having authority over them.

    people and business do not make commerce laws, .why should they be regulated, since they have no power over commerce?

    a·mong
    əˈməNG/
    preposition
    preposition: among; preposition: amongst

    1.
    surrounded by; in the company of.
    "wild strawberries hidden among the roots of the trees"
    synonyms: surrounded by, in the company of, amid, in the middle of, with; More
    literaryamidst, in the midst of
    "you're among friends"
    2.
    being a member or members of (a larger set).
    "he was among the first 29 students enrolled"

    synonyms: included in, one/some of, in the group/number of More
    "a child was among the injured"
    3.
    occurring in or practiced by (some members of a community).
    "a drop in tooth decay among children"
    involving most or all members of a group reciprocally.
    "members of the government bickered among themselves"
    synonyms: jointly, mutually, together, with one another More
    "decide among yourselves"
    4.
    indicating a division, choice, or differentiation involving three or more participants.
    "the king called the three princesses to divide his kingdom among them"
    synonyms: between, to each of More
    "he distributed the proceeds among his creditors"

    Origin
    More
    Old English ongemang (from on ‘in’ + gemang ‘assemblage, mingling’). The -st of amongst represents -s (adverbial genitive) + -t probably by association with superlatives (as in against ).



    The defect of power in the existing confederacy,[articles of confederation] to regulate the commerce between its several members, is in the number of those which have been clearly pointed out by experience"

    who are the members........they are the states
    Last edited by Master PO; 09-02-13 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Thank you, but I would have to disagree. The minimum wage was never intended to support a family of any size. It has only served to freeze out lesser skilled applicants during times of high unemployment and to further increase incentives for business to eliminate jobs at the lower end of the wage scale. If your desire is for individuals to become self-supporting, long-term support must be removed for those capable of doing so...
    I am not sure of the complete intent, but do know that when minimum wage was created the POTUS said it was the most important thing since the New Deal. Clearly Congress and the POTUS felt passionate about minimum wage. In fact, the guy who created it - he went on to become a Supreme Court Justice. SCOTUS ruled on minimum wage a few years later and they were unanimous and not split in their view of it.

    I absolutely desire for Americans to become self supporting. I want the ones that do not work to start working, and I want the ones that do work to make enough that they do not ask for entitlements to subsidize their work. Minimum wage won't fix the lack of work in USA, but it will get the working ones off entitlement. To go after the ones that do not work is a much more complicated matter and involves cultural changes for minorities and some other things. But minimum wage I view as a definite fix that should lower entitlements considerably.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the founders who wrote the constitution state government is limited. its duties are few and defined.
    As usual, you completely ignore the point I made. It is not 1787, we have had vast amounts of interpretation of the Constitution since then and to ignore the path of how we got from there to here is just intellectual laziness.

    Fundamentalism is so boring and dead, it is luddism defined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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