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Thread: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    All you do is throw out personal attacks. Once you do that, all I do is quote them, report them, and ignore the rest of what you say. When you learn not to make personal attacks, perhaps you will get more responses from people. Until that time, I will continue to identify every one of your personal attacks and report them to the moderators.
    Please go right ahead. They no doubt consider you an expert on personal attacks.
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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    All you do is throw out personal attacks. Once you do that, all I do is quote them, report them, and ignore the rest of what you say. When you learn not to make personal attacks, perhaps you will get more responses from people. Until that time, I will continue to identify every one of your personal attacks and report them to the moderators.
    CaseWeb: 720.0 Urban League and the Youth Subminimum Wage


    Abstract:
    In the spring of 1984, despite the economy's spectacular recovery from a severe recession, teenage unemployment remained a major problem: 19.4 percent of all teenagers and 44.8 percent of black youth, were jobless. At the urging of the Reagan administration, Congress once again began to consider a proposal to lower the minimum wage for teenagers, citing economists' arguments that the minimum wage hurt those whose skills were the most marginal. Previous proposals for a "youth subminimum wage" had failed in the face of opposition from labor and civil rights groups, but in 1984, the African-American community had begun to splinter over the subminimum wage, and as the issue gained visibility, the National Urban League felt pressed to take a stand.The case traces the history of the political and academic debate over the minimum wage and the proposed subminimum wage. It provides a vehicle for examining two alternative models of labor markets-one competitive, the other monopsonistic-and for analyzing their relative ability to explain empirical data concerning the effects of the minimum wage. The case also serves to highlight the role of labor unions.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that maybe, but would you care to show me, where the power is in the constitution that gives government the power to set wages.
    The Constitution gives Congress the power to make laws. That's Article 1 and I believe they call that the "Vesting Clause".

    The part that gives them the power is "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

    The reason they can make laws about wages would be "To regulate Commerce among the several States". Wages certainly are a component of regulating commerce.

    Article 3 gives the Supreme Court the power to determine if laws are Constitutional. SCOTUS reviewed whether the Fair Labor Standards Act was constitutional in 1941.

    SCOTUS in a unanimous opinion in the case "US v Darby Lumber Company" upheld the Constitutionality of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), the law that established the Federal minimum wage.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    nothing in these 18 powers for setting wages.
    "To regulate Commerce ... among the several States..."

    Commerce by anyone's definition is the buying and selling of goods and services. A component of selling goods is the cost of goods. A component of the cost of goods is most definitely human labor. If SCOTUS didn't agree with that, they would not have voted unanimously that defining a minimum wage was constitutional.

    I am not saying you have to agree with Congress and SCOTUS, as I often disagree with their decisions; but I am saying both Congress and SCOTUS took a long hard look at minimum wage and said it was absolutely constitutional.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    The Constitution gives Congress the power to make laws. That's Article 1 and I believe they call that the "Vesting Clause".

    The part that gives them the power is "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

    The reason they can make laws about wages would be "To regulate Commerce among the several States". Wages certainly are a component of regulating commerce.

    Article 3 gives the Supreme Court the power to determine if laws are Constitutional. SCOTUS reviewed whether the Fair Labor Standards Act was constitutional in 1941.

    SCOTUS in a unanimous opinion in the case "US v Darby Lumber Company" upheld the Constitutionality of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), the law that established the Federal minimum wage.
    yes, laws for the foregoing powers only.

    sorry no.... wages are not commerce...commerce is the buying and selling or goods and services.....you might want to read the constitution again.......it is to regulate commerce AMONG the states...not inside them.

    there is no delegated power of congress to set wages, no matter what the court says........because it not listed in the constitution........powers have to be delegated, madison and Hamilton are clear about that.

    again where in the constitution does it give the federal government power ......over the people?..no where.

    the government only has power over people who violate delegated federal powers......IE...tax cheats, pirates ,counterfeiter and traitors

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    "To regulate Commerce ... among the several States..."

    Commerce by anyone's definition is the buying and selling of goods and services. A component of selling goods is the cost of goods. A component of the cost of goods is most definitely human labor. If SCOTUS didn't agree with that, they would not have voted unanimously that defining a minimum wage was constitutional.

    I am not saying you have to agree with Congress and SCOTUS, as I often disagree with their decisions; but I am saying both Congress and SCOTUS took a long hard look at minimum wage and said it was absolutely constitutional.

    James Madison, Federalist, no. 42, 283--85
    22 Jan. 1788

    "The defect of power in the existing confederacy, to regulate the commerce between its several members, is in the number of those which have been clearly pointed out by experience"

    THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS GIVEN NO AUTHORITY TO REGULATE INSIDE THE STATES, AND YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THIS LITTLE GEM BELOW.

    "To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings"

    THIS STATES THAT CONGRESS HAS NO POWERS OUTSIDE OF D.C. UNLESS THE STATES APPROVE OF IT, FOR NEEDFUL BUILDINGS ONLY, GOVERNMENT HAS NO AUTHORITY ON PRIVATE OR STATE LAND.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    I'm addressing your posts, not those of others, and no, I don't care to review 400 posts to find yours. The question was as simple as I could make it, yet you would rather accuse one of trolling than directly addressing it, and I'm still waiting for you to do so. Would you like for me to post the question once again?
    So that you do not have to read the rest of THIS THREAD that you are posting in (which is where I posted my view of minimum wage), I will share it with you again.

    Overview of facts taken into account in defining my opinion:
    I gave an example of what I believed was a reasonable budget for a family of three. I came up with about $1,900 a month. I further searched through Federal websites and came up with Uncle Sam determining that the poverty threshold for a family of three in 2012 was $19,090. I divided the $19,090 by the standard hours in a work year (2080 minus holidays and sick days) and I came up with an hourly wage of roughly $10/hr. I took my estimate of a budget of $1,900 and divided by the work hours in a month and also came up with $10/hr.

    My position:
    Since Uncle Sam subsidizes Americans that make less than the poverty threshold of $19,090 with such things as section-8 housing, welfare, food stamps, and free medical care; I believe that increasing minimum wage such that all working Americans are above that poverty threshold will lower my tax obligation considerably. I believe that one of the major economic issues in America is the Federal Budget, and I further believe that the entitlements in the Federal Budget and defense spending in the federal budget should be reduced by 50% so that the budget works toward becoming balanced, lowers the debt, increases the health of Social Security, and potentially lowers my tax rate (I am in the highest tax rate in USA).

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    James Madison, Federalist, no. 42, 283--85
    22 Jan. 1788

    "The defect of power in the existing confederacy, to regulate the commerce between its several members, is in the number of those which have been clearly pointed out by experience"
    I have read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers, but I thank you for their link and the reminder of the importance of those documents. While I am a Libertarian and prefer to side with Thomas Jefferson, Hamilton, and the rest of the anti-Federalists; I do believe that Congress absolutely has the power to regulate wages, and I agree with the SCOTUS unanimous position that the minimum wage component of the Fair Labor Act was constitutional. My view is in no small part due to the fact that if there is no minimum wage that more Americans could be eligible for entitlement programs, and that these entitlement programs come on the back of my decades of hard labor and academic efforts.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    article 1 section 8..
    I'm sure that when you go back to the Euro origins of your family, actually visiting the cities of your ancestors, you cannot understand or see how your family got to the US.....without a genealogy chart and family history.

    Going back to original documents gives no understanding to where we are now. You are leaving out the middle, only you can answer why.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    I have read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers, but I thank you for their link and the reminder of the importance of those documents. While I am a Libertarian and prefer to side with Thomas Jefferson, Hamilton, and the rest of the anti-Federalists; I do believe that Congress absolutely has the power to regulate wages, and I agree with the SCOTUS unanimous position that the minimum wage component of the Fair Labor Act was constitutional. My view is in no small part due to the fact that if there is no minimum wage that more Americans could be eligible for entitlement programs, and that these entitlement programs come on the back of my decades of hard labor and academic efforts.
    HAMILTON WAS NOT AN ANTI -FEDERALIST.

    founders were clear, commerce was turned over to the federal government, to prevent trade wars and barriers from happening, becuase states were making trade laws,c ausing commerce to come to a stand still under the articles of confederation.

    people and business do not make laws, .....why would congress have the power to regulate those who dont make law?

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