Page 34 of 58 FirstFirst ... 24323334353644 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 340 of 579

Thread: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

  1. #331
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Fair market prices refer to the price at which willing buyers and willing sellers agree. You're advocating a third party (government) meddle in this discussion, which just distorts any determination of what is considered "fair." You don't decide what is "fair" because you have political opinions (nor do I, for that matter). Who decides fairness of a given transaction are the buyer and seller.



    You know what, I agree, but I would frame this slightly differently: in my opinion, people should typically not be willing to work more than 2,000 hours per year for that amount of money (less than $20,000), as I find that to be borderline irrational --- but if they really want to make that trade, how is it fair, in a country that has any value for liberty, to interfere in their affairs and prevent them from doing so?



    Huh? Employment is a contract between two adult parties -- a buyer of labor and a seller of labor. Employment is not a parent-child relationship in which one party is responsible for providing for the other. Until you can acknowledge this, your opinions on this issue will continue to appear rather bizarre.
    The government (as in we the people) have a right to have sway in policies. Since some wealthy corporations are undercutting their workers wages, and we have to subsidies it we have a say on what we think is fair.

    Also, exploiting workers (as in working many hours and getting very low compensation) is not right on any level. Sure there are people around the world willing to make a dollar a day but just because they are willing to take a dollar rather than nothing it doesn't make it right. It's the defintion of exploitation.

    I never said it was a parent child relationship but it is not a fair negotiation process between an already exploited worker and an employer. The power structure is uneven. That is not bizarre but true.

  2. #332
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    The government (as in we the people) have a right to have sway in policies. Since some wealthy corporations are undercutting their workers wages, and we have to subsidies it we have a say on what we think is fair.

    Also, exploiting workers (as in working many hours and getting very low compensation) is not right on any level. Sure there are people around the world willing to make a dollar a day but just because they are willing to take a dollar rather than nothing it doesn't make it right. It's the defintion of exploitation.

    I never said it was a parent child relationship but it is not a fair negotiation process between an already exploited worker and an employer. The power structure is uneven. That is not bizarre but true.
    I can't really reply to this without repeating my earlier posts. You seem to think the voting public is able to right this supposed wrong, but you are not acknowledging all the ways this backfires (especially on the people you think it's helping). The closest you've come to admitting it is saying "well if the industry fails, the food is crap anyway." So if the idea fails miserably to do what you say you want it to, you'll just flip the script and find the silver lining, which displays your reckless disregard for the consequences of your policy idea.

  3. #333
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I can't really reply to this without repeating my earlier posts. You seem to think the voting public is able to right this supposed wrong, but you are not acknowledging all the ways this backfires (especially on the people you think it's helping). The closest you've come to admitting it is saying "well if the industry fails, the food is crap anyway." So if the idea fails miserably to do what you say you want it to, you'll just flip the script and find the silver lining, which displays your reckless disregard for the consequences of your policy idea.
    They can and policy can reflect a different minimum wage. The workers also agree since they apparently have started a movement. That is the great thing about our system. We can still speak out about bad public policy. I doubt McDonalds will fail because they have to pay a higher minimum wage. The reckless consequences of today's policy is low wages and government subsidies that allow workers to survive and wealthy corporations that take advantage of that system. Someone has to speak out.

  4. #334
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    They can and policy can reflect a different minimum wage. The workers also agree since they apparently have started a movement. That is the great thing about our system. We can still speak out about bad public policy. I doubt McDonalds will fail because they have to pay a higher minimum wage. The reckless consequences of today's policy is low wages and government subsidies that allow workers to survive and wealthy corporations that take advantage of that system. Someone has to speak out.
    We're reduced to repeating ourselves. You're so blinded by your advocacy you don't care if your policy ultimately hurts the people you claim it intends to help. You haven't acknowledged that possibility, so we go around and around.

  5. #335
    Sage
    Anthony60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,564

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    I gave you a bit of your own medicine.
    Well it was so suttle, I didn't even notice.

    And the facts remain that only a small portion of America produces something. There are plenty of Americans in support roles or in a services role.
    I am not sure what you mean by production. Are you including only tangible objects that take up space, anything else doesn't count? Because that's not really how it works, companies pay for intellectual output all the time, as I'm sure you have also. As this is a discussion about the minimum wage, you need to include anything of value that an employee produces. So, let's just stick with the standard definition that everyone uses when discussing the economy.

    If you believe this guy's assertion is correct then you have the same issues he has - the lack of understanding that not everyone produces something, and yet still has a wage value. "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.". -- SAWDUST
    I believe I addressed all this, and I can reply to him, or he to me, if needed. As I said, I think we need to use the standard, acceptable definition of production, and stop arguing about the trivialities.

    Also note, you have yet to respond to any of the points I made, choosing to dwell on silliness. If we are discussing the minimum wage, why are you so preoccupied with what production is? It's not like it's some sort of mystery.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

  6. #336
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    11-03-13 @ 04:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    376

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    We can all agree obesity is bad. Glad the AMA is on board. Your challenge (unmet thus far) is to tie obesity to McDonald's.
    Obesity is caused by high fat, high sugar foods. McDonald's food is high fat and therefore their food is a cause of obesity. McDonald's food not only causes obesity when consumed on a regular basis, but a whole host of other medical problems. And then taxpayers like myself pay for those issues. We pay in higher fees to insurance companies, we pay in taxes that the government uses to subsidize hospitals that are not making a profit, we pay in taxes that the government uses to make citizens aware of the dangers of obesity, etc. McDonald's makes profit on the weak will of over-eaters by offering extremely unhealthy meal choices at very inexpensive rates during a weak economy. They are exploiters and cause higher taxes and higher costs for those of us that are not obese binge eaters addicted to fast food.

  7. #337
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    11-03-13 @ 04:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    376

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Also note, you have yet to respond to any of the points I made, choosing to dwell on silliness. If we are discussing the minimum wage, why are you so preoccupied with what production is? It's not like it's some sort of mystery.
    His assertion was that minimum wage *must* be based on how many widgets a person can produce in an hour and the value of the widget. That is not what minimum wage should be based on. Minimum wage should be based on what Uncle Sam determines is needed to exist in USA without costing taxpayers money to subsidize that worker's life. Congress says poverty for a family of three has a threshold of $19,090. As such, if someone makes less than $19,090 then I personally have to give tax money to Uncle Sam so they can hand it to this poor person in the form of food stamps, section 8, free medical, and other entitlements. My argument is if the person makes some amount beyond that, I am relieved of the burden of carrying someone else through life. So I want minimum wage to be the correct amount so an American can pay his own way through this world. McDonald's for example wants to pay the person $13K a year or less so that they can sell their burger for $1 and I can pay the person another $10K in salary through my taxes so the person has a life equal to or better than what Congress says is the minimum quality of life in USA. Well I personally do not want to pay half of that person's salary; and I do not eat their disgusting, unhealthy crap they try and push as actual food.

  8. #338
    Sage
    Anthony60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,564

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    All you've done is taken an adage, "life isn't fair," and accepted that as fact. Why isn't it fair? For whom? Does it have to be?

    Governments pass laws addressing fairness all the time. It's kind of what they do.
    Really? Where in the Constitution does the government have that power? No, it's kind of not what they (are supposed to) do. Government has expanded so far beyond what it was created for that they have their tentacles into everything. And it is hurting this country.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

  9. #339
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,854
    Blog Entries
    2

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    Obesity is caused by high fat, high sugar foods. McDonald's food is high fat and therefore their food is a cause of obesity. McDonald's food not only causes obesity when consumed on a regular basis, but a whole host of other medical problems. And then taxpayers like myself pay for those issues. We pay in higher fees to insurance companies, we pay in taxes that the government uses to subsidize hospitals that are not making a profit, we pay in taxes that the government uses to make citizens aware of the dangers of obesity, etc. McDonald's makes profit on the weak will of over-eaters by offering extremely unhealthy meal choices at very inexpensive rates during a weak economy. They are exploiters and cause higher taxes and higher costs for those of us that are not obese binge eaters addicted to fast food.
    Consumers have many choices, both between restaurants and within the menu of a specific restaurant. Please identify the research results that show a causative relationship between McDonald's and obesity. Then stop whining.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #340
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    11-03-13 @ 04:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    376

    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Really? Where in the Constitution does the government have that power? No, it's kind of not what they (are supposed to) do. Government has expanded so far beyond what it was created for that they have their tentacles into everything. And it is hurting this country.
    Would you agree that the primary purpose of government is to protect the law abiding citizens of a country? Would you further agree that there is a very strong relationship between crime and poverty? And if you agree with those two points, would you conclude that if a government reduces poverty, they also reduce crime and make the country safer for the law abiding citizens?

Page 34 of 58 FirstFirst ... 24323334353644 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •