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Thread: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    I believe Congress created the Fair Labor Standards Act for a reason. I am not sure why they handed the decision about picking a minimum wage to the individual States, but since Congress did that in 2010 many States have made it higher than the federal minimum; and some counties have made it higher than the State minimums.
    I'm just going to point out that Congress didn't hand anything to the States, they already have that power. It's the States that hand power to the Federal government, and can take it away, if they wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    In Santa Fe it's $9.50 and in San Francisco it's $9.79 for example. In my example of what it costs to just get by in a minimum lifestyle (no cell phone, no car, no satellite TV, etc); a person would be barely existing and would need $1,900 a month. Congress says if you are a family of three and make less than $9.17 you are below the poverty level ($19,060 a year). All things considered, I feel a minimum wage of $15/hr would be reasonable.
    I think that throughout this thread, there is a fundamental misunderstanding by the left on how the economy works. To say that a $15p/hr wage is a reasonable rate of payment without even knowing what the job is really tells the story. You are also saying that the employer should pay more, even double, what the job is worth in the local market, because the employee "needs" it to meet a certain standard of living. In fact, you are basically consenting to price increases when you do this.

    So, you want the business owner to pay double the actual cost of labor. Now, let me ask, when you and everyone that wants this to happen goes shopping, especially at one of these businesses, would you have any problem when your grocery bill comes to $100 and then there is a surcharge at the end bringing the bill up to around $200? You certainly can't sit there and lobby for such an increase in the cost of the goods you purchase, and then not be willing to pay more.

    I mean, of course you cannot think that imposing such an anti-free market requirement on the business would have no effect on the business, or the rest of the formerly free market, right?
    Last edited by Anthony60; 09-01-13 at 12:36 PM.
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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    Firemen don't produce anything - should they make $2 an hour?
    You didn't just seriously say that! I'm guessing that you mean that what they do doesn't leave a product that you can hold in your hand. Because, of course, they put out fires. And they are not a business, for the most part. Maybe one house burns when they show up, maybe an entire neighborhood burns if they don't. They might be worth more than $2p/hr. It's about value, not the actual product.
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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    You didn't just seriously say that! I'm guessing that you mean that what they do doesn't leave a product that you can hold in your hand. Because, of course, they put out fires. And they are not a business, for the most part. Maybe one house burns when they show up, maybe an entire neighborhood burns if they don't. They might be worth more than $2p/hr. It's about value, not the actual product.
    Hell, most firefighters, outside of cities, are volunteers, and they provide a much more valuable service to society than any McDonald's employee. Maybe McDonald's workers should all be volunteers?

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Firemen are either paid by the government or volunteer precisely because they produce nothing but they preform a necessary function in society.
    You said, and I quote: "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.".

    You said this pal, not me. So my example of the Fireman stands to your silly post that started it. You said minimum wage was based on what someone can produce. So what does a cop produce? What does a fireman produce? What does a teacher produce? What does a bus driver produce?

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    You didn't just seriously say that! I'm guessing that you mean that what they do doesn't leave a product that you can hold in your hand.
    Please do not twist my words or take my words out of context. That is insulting and infuriating. My example of a Fireman was based on Sawdust saying that minimum wage had to be based on what a human being can produce. "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.". -- SAWDUST

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    I think that throughout this thread, there is a fundamental misunderstanding by the left on how the economy works. So, you want the business owner to pay double the actual cost of labor.
    We are now accusing people of something they aren't? I think all you god-squad GOP lemmings must have reading comprehension issues because clearly you cannot tell the difference between a Libertarian and a Liberal EVEN WHEN IT SAY LIBERTARIAN NEXT TO THE POSTER'S NAME.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    You said, and I quote: "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.".

    You said this pal, not me. So my example of the Fireman stands to your silly post that started it. You said minimum wage was based on what someone can produce. So what does a cop produce? What does a fireman produce? What does a teacher produce? What does a bus driver produce?
    An on demand lifesaving, property saving service. Just to mention some of what they do.
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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    You said, and I quote: "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.".

    You said this pal, not me. So my example of the Fireman stands to your silly post that started it. You said minimum wage was based on what someone can produce. So what does a cop produce? What does a fireman produce? What does a teacher produce? What does a bus driver produce?
    Government isn't involved in production. In addition I don't think they employ many minimum wage workers. If you hadn't noticed we are talking about minimum wage in the private sector. Feel free to join the conversation.

    Examples of government workers whose jobs are non productive are plentiful. We are speaking about the relationship between business and wages though. I stand by what I said earlier regardless of your inability to understand or accept it.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    Please do not twist my words or take my words out of context. That is insulting and infuriating. My example ......... that minimum wage had to be based on what a human being can produce. "To achieve that minimum wage, how much value do you calculate the worker must produce for his employer? Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production.". -- SAWDUST

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    We are now accusing people of something they aren't? I think all you god-squad GOP lemmings must have reading comprehension issues because clearly you cannot tell the difference between a Libertarian and a Liberal EVEN WHEN IT SAY LIBERTARIAN NEXT TO THE POSTER'S NAME.
    There are many people of all political persuasions who do not/cannot comprehend this economic. Witness our elected officials who have nary a clue of business economics/operations.

    Thom Paine

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I stand by what I said earlier regardless of your inability to understand or accept it.
    I understand that you said "Wages are based on production". I further understand that you could not explain what to do about jobs that don't produce anything. I'd invite you to the conversation; but nothing you say seems to have one iota of intelligent thought given to it. When every job in America produces something, then perhaps your below statement will make sense:
    "Wages aren't based on need. They are based on production." -- SAWDUST

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