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Thread: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

  1. #261
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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    And go figure cost of living is higher there (higher than average).
    Cost of living was high here long before the minimum wage was raised. Nice try though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

    What is a "fair" wage? This baffles me. What does a McDonald's employee do that deserves $1900 a month (someone stated that amount)? Did they have to risk anything for the job? Or just apply? What kind of education? A poster here demonstrated that one certainly doesn't need to invest money in an education. So they deserve ~$1400-$1900 a month to put "burgers" in microwaves or whatever they cook in? Even in a crap economy where people stop going to the store? So what the hell should we pay a doctor who busted his ass, paid out the ass, went through 8 years of college, took test after test, 2 years residency and spent ungodly sums of money? What about the nurse who spent long hours getting the education, dealing with crazy patients, cleaning up human fecal matter, and worked their ass off and paid out the ass for education? The fireman who had to learn the trade, bust his ass to pass the tests, and risk his life? The electrician? The carpenter? The small business man? The big business man? At the end of the day you want to talk about "fair" wages? Talk about teachers. Or anyone else I listed who is paid poorly.

    You know. I think I am coming up with a theory. We have lost industrial/manufacturing jobs here. We ship a lot of that stuff overseas. And now we wonder why we have a surplus of employees to ask, "Do you want to make that a super small for .25 less?" (Props if you get it). We need jobs here. End of story. If we want jobs, we gotta make em. And ditch digging is a job.

    I'm hoping for law school. I'm not afraid. I'm hopeful. Maybe the real world will kick my teeth down my throat, but I'm not gonna quit until I scratch and claw my way into a job that pays for a family. Oh. And I will make sure my kid gets and engineering degree. Lol.
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    McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Cost of living was high here long before the minimum wage was raised. Nice try though.
    Mhm. And what do you think will happen to cost of living when employers are forced to pay their bottom tier employees higher wages for mediocre work? Eat into profit? Or do you think they are going to just raise the price of goods, let go of the least efficient employees, and keep the quality guys on for a "higher" wage?


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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Mhm. And what do you think will happen to cost of living when employers are forced to pay their bottom tier employees higher wages for mediocre work? Eat into profit? Or do you think they are going to just raise the price of goods, let go of the least efficient employees, and keep the quality guys on for a "higher" wage?


    Minimum Wage Myths | NCPA
    Also, instead of posing a question to dish off responsibility for owning up to your claims... how about proving your claims? Just a thought. It's rather disingenuous to make accusations then use the question format to put all the burden of proof of your claims on others.

    As far as your link... Thanks for the link to the pro "free market" right wing propaganda site. I'll pass on relying on their info for now.

    Our goal is to develop and promote private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector.

    That's admitting that they are fixing the facts to suit their goals of saying all government is evil.


    so....

    prove to me that Santa Fe is doomed to have and even higher cost of living because of the recent minimum wage raise. Tell me. Show me. Don't ask me please.
    Last edited by poweRob; 09-01-13 at 03:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    Minimum wage has nothing to do with production. Minimum wage is determined by Congress. I believe they made a minimum wage to make sure that employers paid American citizens enough to live on. My above numbers show that you need $1,400 to live on for a family of three. The US Government says the poverty level for a family of three (my example) is $19,090. Your assertion is that someone must produce something to deserve a minimum wage? Firemen don't produce anything - should they make $2 an hour?
    Price and wage controls don't work if the price is driven below the cost of production or the wage doesn't meet the demand of production. Chavez tried price controls for bread in Venezuela. He set the price below the cost of production and the result was a bread shortage. Similarly if minimum wages were set above their ability to pay for themselves, the production costs of the associated businesses that require minimum wage workers would be driven high enough that entire industries could be put out of business or their products either unaffordable or unpopular.

    Firemen are either paid by the government or volunteer precisely because they produce nothing but they preform a necessary function in society.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Only when profit sharing is involved. Otherwise your wage is static and doesn't give you one red cent more if you produce more.
    No, most businesses, (I'm excluding ESOP's) don't exist for the benefit of the employee. Above minimum wage which is set by the government, businesses pay wages which are set by the market. Business owners don't pay more than they have to but they rely on the most productive employees they can hire. To attract or keep good employees business owners manage pay scales to achieve this objective. In my business in a recession I could hire good cabinet makers for twelve bucks an hour. When there was full employment they cost me seventeen to twenty. Business owners make their decisions about wages strictly on production and the market. More productive workers make more money and it doesn't matter if they are salesmen or masons.

    Look at how the market sets McDonalds wages in North Dakota. With full employment because of the oil boom and a shortage of fast food workers they pay fifteen dollars an hour with a three hundred dollar signing bonus for line cooks. Oil field workers are knocking down 70k annually and they can afford increased food costs.

    This supply and demand thing is difficult to get around and the so called living wage is going to be it's casualty.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    No, most businesses, (I'm excluding ESOP's) don't exist for the benefit of the employee. Above minimum wage which is set by the government, businesses pay wages which are set by the market. Business owners don't pay more than they have to but they rely on the most productive employees they can hire. To attract or keep good employees business owners manage pay scales to achieve this objective. In my business in a recession I could hire good cabinet makers for twelve bucks an hour. When there was full employment they cost me seventeen to twenty. Business owners make their decisions about wages strictly on production and the market. More productive workers make more money and it doesn't matter if they are salesmen or masons.

    Look at how the market sets McDonalds wages in North Dakota. With full employment because of the oil boom and a shortage of fast food workers they pay fifteen dollars an hour with a three hundred dollar signing bonus for line cooks. Oil field workers are knocking down 70k annually and they can afford increased food costs.

    This supply and demand thing is difficult to get around and the so called living wage is going to be it's casualty.
    Good point. McDonalds is a profitable franchise, but not every store is as profitable as the next. Same with many retail outlets: some are profitable others not so much. Raise the minimum too high and stores will close, others will reduce hours and staff. I just don't get how liberals believe that fewer stores, less expansion, and fewer workers with fewer hours is a better scenario for people looking for work.

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    McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Also, instead of posing a question to dish off responsibility for owning up to your claims... how about proving your claims? Just a thought. It's rather disingenuous to make accusations then use the question format to put all the burden of proof of your claims on others.

    As far as your link... Thanks for the link to the pro "free market" right wing propaganda site. I'll pass on relying on their info for now.

    Our goal is to develop and promote private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector.

    That's admitting that they are fixing the facts to suit their goals of saying all government is evil.


    so....

    prove to me that Santa Fe is doomed to have and even higher cost of living because of the recent minimum wage raise. Tell me. Show me. Don't ask me please.
    Oh? So I can't ask question now? Why? Because you cannot answer them right? Seriously. Give it the old college try and tell me what in the hell you expect an employer to do when you raise the cost of paying his labor force?

    As for the link. How does that admit to "fixing the stats?" Does that mean that everyone with an agenda changes the stats to suit their needs? Or do you just not have evidence and data to fend off the studies and claims, so instead you just write them off as "right wing propaganda" because it doesn't support what you think it should?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    No, most businesses, (I'm excluding ESOP's) don't exist for the benefit of the employee. Above minimum wage which is set by the government, businesses pay wages which are set by the market. Business owners don't pay more than they have to but they rely on the most productive employees they can hire. To attract or keep good employees business owners manage pay scales to achieve this objective. In my business in a recession I could hire good cabinet makers for twelve bucks an hour. When there was full employment they cost me seventeen to twenty. Business owners make their decisions about wages strictly on production and the market. More productive workers make more money and it doesn't matter if they are salesmen or masons.

    Look at how the market sets McDonalds wages in North Dakota. With full employment because of the oil boom and a shortage of fast food workers they pay fifteen dollars an hour with a three hundred dollar signing bonus for line cooks. Oil field workers are knocking down 70k annually and they can afford increased food costs.

    This supply and demand thing is difficult to get around and the so called living wage is going to be it's casualty.
    Amen!!! I just don't grasp how someone thinks a non educated, no skill employee, deserves a wage that is competitive with someone who went to college for 4 years.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Except for those who will lose their franchises and have them close, but that wouldn't concern you would it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Wow all those people who seem to have figured out that paying $15/hour at McDonalds will still let the owner make a nice profit. They should buy some franchises and follow their own advice, they'll make a killing.

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