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Thread: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    To answer your response up, yeah its a different business model from McDonald's. Their ability to pay higher wages isn't necessarily a reflection on McDonald's ability.

    Usually I see competitive businesses fall into two kinds of categories. Businesses that hire a lot of employees and pay low wages or businesses that hire fewer employees and pay higher wages, making up the difference using efficiency and productivity.
    True but there's nothing out there keeping someone from stealing In-n-out burgers' business model and paying $8/hour. Not that I'd think it'd work. Once you have a loyal customer base combined with a loyal strong workforce... it's hard to beat. Workers who see a future with a company actually look for more than just a paycheck. They actually care if the company to succeeds and will help provide ways to make that happen. Costco's CEO recognized this. He says because his employees are paid well, he doesn't have the internal theft issues that others have and he has lower training costs because turnover is much lower.

    Our country has a vision problem. Our political system is designed to not give a damn about the future beyond their 2, 4 or 6 year next election. As far as business, publicly traded companies don't care what goes on in the next decade but rather how the next quarter looks which is why CEO's today generally aren't with the company for long at all while back prior to the 80's they were their for decades prior to being CEO of that company. In the 80's executives were then allowed to be paid in stock options narrowing the vision of the company's future. /side-rant off
    Last edited by poweRob; 08-31-13 at 07:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    No doubt. I was only illustrating price variability. The primary use of the BMI is to assess currency values.
    That makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    I disagree. No matter what the minimum wage is, there will be no change in the cost of milking a cow, growing an acre of wheat, pumping oil out of a field in Evenston, Wyoming, etc. Maybe a burger will cost a bit more at Mickey D's; but 90% of what we consume in America has nothing to do with a minimum wage worker. No minimum wage workers build cars in detroit, wait on you at a doctors office or a hospital, fix your roads, cash your check at the bank, fly your airplanes, grow your crops or raise your meats, sail your freighter ships, or fix your telephone lines. Places you see minimum wage is the dude that stocks your Campell Soups at Publix at 3 AM, drop your fries at Wendy's, or carry your groceries to the car at Winn-Dixie. But that's a mere fraction of the people you interact with every day.
    You are making one HUGE assumption - that whatever the MW is increased to will not exceed the wages of those now making "one step" up from that (and so on). It is the ripple effect that causes inflation. Nearly every product/service is based on both direct and indirect labor costs. The cost of a McBurger in relation to a grocery store burger will not likely change; if a McBurger goes up $1 so will a grocery store burger, along with the price of the fixin's - do you think grocery store cashiers/stockers will not see a raise when the MW goes up? Will a construction worker/truck driver not expect a raise to cover the increased cost of their breakfast/lunch?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK then make MW $14.42/hour and we all then get at least the current median U.S. wage (less the affect of inflation that it causes). Of course, many cashiers will then be replaced by self check-out machines, more jobs outsourced and more illegal aliens pouring in.
    While I don't agree with you that automation would all the sudden pop up because as I stated earlier, if automation were to be available, it would already be implemented... I do however FULLY agree with you about the illegal alien workers issue. That is a rather easy fix even when it's made difficult by our politicians. If you ever want to change society, start putting white collar criminals behind bars. Not fines. Jail. I have a hard time being mad at someone trying to feed their family. I do have a problem with businesses recruiting and hiring them. Unfortunately, our system is all about putting the workers in jail and holding cells for deportation but simply just fine the employer that threw that carrot out there to get them here. IMO, in this era where money=speech and corporations are people, it's because illegal aliens don't fund campaigns while corporate people do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Out country has a vision problem. Our political system is designed to not give a damn about the future beyond their 2, 4 or 6 year next election. As far as business, publicly traded companies don't care what goes on in the next decade but rather how the next quarter looks which is why CEO's today generally aren't with the company for long at all while back prior to the 80's they were their for decades prior to being CEO of that company. In the 80's executives were then allowed to be paid in stock options narrowing the vision of the company's future. /side-rant off
    It's not really a side-rant, in my opinion. Actually I think it points to equity-based executive compensation which has proliferated and has widely-touted upsides but not necessarily intuitive downsides, and it seems like you're sniffing that out. I mean if we want to discuss compensation, we ought to discuss business models, right?

    And when it comes to minimum wages and business models of fast food chains, it's a rather strange debate. Do people, generally speaking, even genuinely want this industry to succeed in the first place? If so, why? Look at the socioeconomic status of regular fast food customers... increasing their operating costs will work out to be a tax on the poor to help the poor. Plus there's the risk of increasing automation which could eliminate a lot of jobs rather than cause those workers to be paid more. And so on and so forth. I think some people are so energized by the thought of "demanding more money" that they can't even think about the actual effects of the policies.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    True but there's nothing out there keeping someone from stealing In-n-out burgers' business model and paying $8/hour. Not that I'd think it'd work. Once you have a loyal customer base combined with a loyal strong workforce... it's hard to beat. Workers who see a future with a company actually look for more than just a paycheck. They actually care if the company to succeeds and will help provide ways to make that happen. Costco's CEO recognized this. He says because his employees are paid well, he doesn't have the internal theft issues that others have and he has lower training costs because turnover is much lower.

    Our country has a vision problem. Our political system is designed to not give a damn about the future beyond their 2, 4 or 6 year next election. As far as business, publicly traded companies don't care what goes on in the next decade but rather how the next quarter looks which is why CEO's today generally aren't with the company for long at all while back prior to the 80's they were their for decades prior to being CEO of that company. In the 80's executives were then allowed to be paid in stock options narrowing the vision of the company's future. /side-rant off
    This is true. But Costco also has less employees per unit of sales than the Walmarts of the world. They sell in bulk, and bulk only, and if you've ever visited one of their warehouses... besides the cashiers, butchers, and food samplers it feels pretty empty. There's not an employee every isle waiting to hold your hand. Other companies may not necessarily be able to implement the same model with success. Or maybe they could, the would just have a lot less employees and that slack might be hard to pick up.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    This is true. But Costco also has less employees per unit of sales than the Walmarts of the world. They sell in bulk, and bulk only, and if you've ever visited one of their warehouses... besides the cashiers, butchers, and food samplers it feels pretty empty. There's not an employee every isle waiting to hold your hand. Other companies may not necessarily be able to implement the same model with success. Or maybe they could, the would just have a lot less employees and that slack might be hard to pick up.
    Other companies I think could implement similar business models but to do so means you have to look beyond the next quarter and have a long term vision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Other companies I think could implement similar business models but to do so means you have to look beyond the next quarter and have a long term vision.
    Well, if they aren't doing that they are really are hurting themselves. A good company would position themselves for the future. A bad company wouldn't. I don't really think the government should be getting involved, but I do think they need to change one rule. Any and all CEO/executive income, bet it issued stock, option packages, etc. should be treated as normal income. I don't mind these guys making millions of dollars a year, but it should be in the form of a straight up salary. They don't need bonuses and option packages in order to do well, they get paid millions of dollars a year with the expectation that they do well. That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

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    re: McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Well, if they aren't doing that they are really are hurting themselves. A good company would position themselves for the future. A bad company wouldn't. I don't really think the government should be getting involved, but I do think they need to change one rule. Any and all CEO/executive income, bet it issued stock, option packages, etc. should be treated as normal income. I don't mind these guys making millions of dollars a year, but it should be in the form of a straight up salary. They don't need bonuses and option packages in order to do well, they get paid millions of dollars a year with the expectation that they do well. That's always been a pet peeve of mine.
    It's a bad one with me as well. It was designed to make the CEO give a damn about the stock of the company because he'd own some. Instead it practically caused the invention of vulture capitalism and executives who bring in a psychopathic CEO who fires as many people he can so the stock explodes on higher profit margins in the short term then he and the other execs bail on the company after they crippled it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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