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Thread: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    BBC News - Syria crisis: Incendiary bomb victims 'like the walking dead'


    Schoolkids being bombed by a Syrian Fighter Jet. ( graphic video)
    and how many kids in Afghanistan and Iraq were killed by British and American bombs... your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    I just posted the story in the Europe subforum. If a mod sees this, you can delete that one, It's just spam at this point. Didn't see this thread here.

    Anyway, I don't believe intervention is correct. Unless the intervention is full fledged military warfare where allied forces occupy Syria and then see to installing a democratic environment where the people will elect their leader. And then bud out. There is no "good side" in Syria. The rebels are islamist terrorist who, if they win, will start doing the genocide of christians in Syria (30% of the population) and institute sharia law, and if Assad wins, well, he is not a legitimate leader. He killed tens of thousands or hundred of thousands of his people and caused the fleeing of almost 1mil from the country.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    England remains a sensible country. They won't fall for Bush-like jingoism again.
    Speaking of Bush, I think this is all a case of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....erm, y'know"
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I believe we should act to eliminate the chemical weapons no matter which side has them. I don't see the Free Syrian Army as likely having done this, but I wouldn't put it past the Islamic Front or al-Nusra. Either way, nobody in the conflict, not even the FSA, should be trusted with chemical weapons.
    In the early talk about possible targets, strikes on the chemical weapons facilities were all but ruled out on account of environmental and health risks. IMO, that's understandable, as the expected harm to civilians would likely be disproportionate relative to the excessive military objective to be attained. What is interesting is that no mention was made with respect to production facilities constituting possible targets. Targeting the latter, at least, would slow the growth of chemical weapons stockpiles. Removal of Syria's chemical weapons would require an on-the-ground presence. The latter is not likely until there is a resolution in Syria's civil war and it's unclear whether any party to that conflict would accept such an outcome. More likely, should the Assad dictatorship survive or the anti-Assad movement gain power, they would articulate Syria's traditional rationale that they need the arsenals to deter Israel. That such rationale lacks merit, both in practice and theory, would not matter. If Syria winds up in a de facto partition of sorts, the chemical arms will also very likely remain out of reach.

    In any case, the "red lines" proved useless in deterring the use of chemical weapons. IMO, that proved to be the case, because such red lines were not consistent with U.S. interests. In effect, the U.S. was issuing warnings/implying commitments that extended beyond its actual relatively small interests in Syria. That gap limited the credibility of those warnings. Not too surprisingly, deterrence failed.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    and how many kids in Afghanistan and Iraq were killed by British and American bombs... your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    Yeh except we don't aim for children and try to avoid targeting civilian areas in general! The same can not be said for the Syrian regime given the weapons they are using and the death toll since the start of the war.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Speaking of Bush, I think this is all a case of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....erm, y'know"
    Bollocks Andy! This had nothing to do with "lessons learned from Iraq" this was a case of a hung parliament to spineless to make the hard choice in a election year, this was political.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Yeh except we don't aim for children and try to avoid targeting civilian areas in general! The same can not be said for the Syrian regime given the weapons they are using and the death toll since the start of the war.
    Oh yeah.. US never hit a wedding party just to kill some bad guy in Pakistan or bombed an area with a 500lb jdam to kill a few guys just "happens" to kill civilians.
    Why do we ignore the civilians killed in American wars? - Washington Post

    That's numbers with the "best" trained military in the world.

    And there is no evidence Syrian Government are directly aiming for children. What you fail to understand is there is another side that is fighting too who are even more poorly trained then the Syrian Army. That do fire randomly and are using indirect fire as well. They hide in and around civilian areas on purpose. That the Syrian Government can only fight the "enemy" where they are at and that's where they are at.

    Do you (or even the US) blame the IDF (Israel) when they bomb a few areas and civilians die knowing they are in the area? No, you say Israel has a right to defend itself. If I told you that the UK Government couldn't go after PIRA, INLA, or even RIRA or CIRA because they live amongst the civilians and you risk civilian deaths by rolling up in your Saracens.. you'd tell me I'd cut your legs out from under you. It's why the British Government never paid no mind to international pressures during "The Troubles" in their policies of conducted "policing". But you want to cut the legs out from Syria because they are fight terrorist groups. How feckless of you.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    What a world we live in. The French still appear to be up for it (theirs appears to be the only western public narrowly in favour of intervention) but Hollande doesn't need to seek approval anyway. Furthermore, it's the French left who want action. America and France, coalition of the willing?

    The British ruling class better hope the Republicans win the next presidency, I'd reckon the special relationship is going to be in trouble for a while if the Tories are viewed as incapable at delivering promises and Labour as backstabbers.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    and how many kids in Afghanistan and Iraq were killed by British and American bombs... your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
    That's the problem with our foreign policy in general, hypocritical.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Yeh except we don't aim for children and try to avoid targeting civilian areas in general! The same can not be said for the Syrian regime given the weapons they are using and the death toll since the start of the war.

    That is blatantly false on both counts.

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