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Thread: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    He had to know that gassing 1,300 of his people would be retaliated against. Didn't he learn when Saddam was taken out? Obama must have intelligence we in the public don't have or I do not believe he would be doing this. I just have to hope that he does the right thing for USA, which is what I wish for no matter who our POTUS is. They surely do not have an easy job.
    The difficulty I have--at least at present--is that the White House has repeatedly said that it lacks a smoking gun and that the evidence is circumstantial. If the evidence were overwhelming or uncertainty were insignificant, the British Parliament, which was briefed on the evidence, would almost surely have voted to support a limited military operation. France has backed away. Germany has backed away. I doubt that such developments would be occurring if the evidence were really strong.

    And, of course, I hope that whatever choice he makes, it's the right one for the U.S. Perhaps I'm overly cautious about these things, but we'll see what happens.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 08-30-13 at 12:13 AM.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    He had to know that gassing 1,300 of his people would be retaliated against. Didn't he learn when Saddam was taken out? Obama must have intelligence we in the public don't have or I do not believe he would be doing this. I just have to hope that he does the right thing for USA, which is what I wish for no matter who our POTUS is. They surely do not have an easy job.
    Yeah, Bush had intelligence that we didn't, too!

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The difficulty I have--at least at present--is that the White House has repeatedly said that it lacks a smoking gun and that the evidence is circumstantial. If the evidence were overwhelming or uncertainty were insignificant, the British Parliament, which was briefed on the evidence, would almost surely have voted to support a limited military operation. France has backed away. Germany has backed away. I doubt that such developments would be occurring if the evidence were really strong.
    Also, early on in the Syrian conflict Obama said that Assad has to go, now the White House assures us this has nothing to do with regime change. Why do the gullible continue to believe ANYTHING that comes out of that house!

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Do we want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud?

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, the vote reflects:

    1. A lack of compelling British strategic interest in military intervention in Syria (something that is true for the U.S., as well)
    2. Information related to the responsibility of the chemical weapons attack that does not rise to the standard of confidence necessary to justify a use of force.

    On the latter point, Washington has used the word "circumstantial" to describe the case and has, at last word, declined to make public the reported electronic intercepts. The reality is that there is probably high confidence that a chemical weapons attack took place, but not the degree of confidence as to who was responsible. In other words, sufficiently significant uncertainty exists.

    It will be interesting to see what the UN investigation reports perhaps as early as this weekend.
    I believe we should act to eliminate the chemical weapons no matter which side has them. I don't see the Free Syrian Army as likely having done this, but I wouldn't put it past the Islamic Front or al-Nusra. Either way, nobody in the conflict, not even the FSA, should be trusted with chemical weapons.
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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    The U.S. government may be considering military action in response to chemical strikes near Damascus. But a generation ago, America's military and intelligence communities knew about and did nothing to stop a series of nerve gas attacks far more devastating than anything Syria has seen, Foreign Policy has learned.

    In 1988, during the waning days of Iraq's war with Iran, the United States learned through satellite imagery that Iran was about to gain a major strategic advantage by exploiting a hole in Iraqi defenses. U.S. intelligence officials conveyed the location of the Iranian troops to Iraq, fully aware that Hussein's military would attack with chemical weapons, including sarin, a lethal nerve agent.


    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...he_gassed_iran

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    Do you know who our #6 creditor is for USA debt? Russia. Know who #2 is? China. Only the American Public holds more USA debt than China. Economists are saying Russia will have a debt crisis by 2030 no matter what. Vlad Putin absolutely will not go to war with USA and risk USA defaulting on a few hundred billion dollars of debt. Russia's GDP is 1.8 trillion, whereas USA is 14.99 trillion. We can afford a $200 billion default, but Russia absolutely cannot. China, with a GDP of 7 trillion can afford a few hundred billion; but that's not what we owe them. We owe them a tad over $1.1 trillion; which they cannot afford for us to default on. China also does $500 billion in trade-goods with USA on the export side and $100 billion on the import side. She can ill afford for both of those numbers to go to $0. I am honestly not worried about China or Russia. Just like USA, they stand to make a lot of money supplying arms and rebuilding the countries that get leveled.
    Thanks, I know all this.

    Debt is not war prevention, it is the cause of wars. Countries who feel they have nothing to lose will be more willing to take outlandish risks when they are hard on their dime. As far as the economy is concerned, the more debt holders who square off in Syria, the better. It gives them an excuse to not deal with the economy anymore. Plus, it makes them money, if they have a fairly well oiled military industrial complex like the U.S. does. Endless war has been one of our national strategies of producing revenue for certain companies.

    Two words: human denial. War is great for distracting people from all the horrible domestic **** you're doing. Except it seems that this time a lot more people aren't buying it.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Tank God!

    So far, so good.

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    how many more people have to die before we intervene?
    Why do we have to intervene? It's the Syrian Government fighting against Al-Qaeda led Jihad. Last time we intervened in a "civil" (Jihad) matter was the Balkans. US backed the early up starts that became Al-Qaeda because of the "tragedy" and look how that turned out. Now it's those Balkan muslims who make the largest part of the forces fights the Syrian Government. You and others say the tragedy, oh the humanity.. I say let them fight it out.. not our problem, its a problem for the part of the world who gives two ****s about us.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: David Cameron loses Syria vote in Commons

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    How is it possible to have a vote in the US Congress when Boehner will not call them back into session?

    He's too busy golfing, campaigning and fund-raising.

    He'll just let Bush's losers like Rummy lay another big turd as Rummy pulls for the all-white guy in Russia.
    You do realize Obama doesn't want a Congressional vote, because if it fails like in the UK, it'll show there is NO red line.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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